Ok, so you are the troll and too dump to understand simple things. More - you are even too retarded to understand that no one is questioning here if the person was on sim or not. Doesn't matter what you think about that kind of business, doesn't matter if you like it or not - it is still legal (as long as second side honor their part of obligations). More of that - doesn't matter if you like it or not, but most of their rules are legit and non arbitrary (some are not). So yes - the topic if the OP outplayed the sim loopholes or not is relevant. About comment on ESL - ahh you miserable person ) - keep gooing, and then wonder why so many ppl around the world (especially from developed and cultural places) have such a low opinion of Americans :]
Does TS pay on performance of the sim? You earn $100K on sim and they pass through the gains less their split? Or are you essentially receiving a draw?
Last year their rules was very simple: a. 5 green days (> $200) and you could withdraw 50 % of your entire SIM balance. The first $10K without a profit split. 90/10 split after that regardless of SIM or LIVE. So, if you made $100K and had 5 green days, you could effectively withdraw $50K if we ignore the profit split to keep it simple. b. After 30 green days (>$200) - you could withdraw your entire balance (minus the split if you exceed $10K) regardless if you're still in SIM or LIVE. Last year, you could in practice rack up those 30 green days without being moved to a live account as there was some discretion involved for when somebody was taken live. - Fast forward today, I think they changed it so that you need to be moved to a live account + you need 30 green days (cumulated from SIM to LIVE) in order to withdraw your full balance. In theory, though, you could be moved from a SIM account with a balance of $150K and then play it safe until you have 30 green days exceeding $200 and you can then withdraw your full balance.
Express funded and Live funded. Regardless, funded means a pooled FCM account with order hitting the tape. I just took a look at their FAQ. They are limiting payouts on sim. I assume that they wouldn’t do that if illegal but this is not a grey area. The model began by these firms (TS included) running a small pooled FCM account. IIRC TS had a $50K account which ofc is ludicrous. Obv that was woefully underfunded even basis the var that their “funded” traders were incurring. All that you need to keep at the FCM is to cover intraday risk as no overnights. Imagine all that can be manipulated on sim. Ofc no market impact to the book which helps the trader but how do you determine what’s marketable? Trader A joins the bid and is filled on the buy? Or does Trader A have to lift the offer? Not really the point but there is no way that you can pay out on sim-trading “gains” as it’s game-able by the company. You’re acting in an OTC-trading capacity. TS clearly stopped this practice (limit sim-payouts) bc they would have unlimited risk if trader hit a home run on sim. Forget the conflicts of interest; this is no legal standing for paying on sim.
"Apex Trader Funding" approved the OP's payout. Period. OP states that he was not in violation of any rules. Apex is not here to argue otherwise. Now, the OP's situation is extremely unfortunate and herein lies the problem. When your trades are hitting the tape then your interests are aligned with your backer. When you're PAID on SIM your backer is your fucking counter-party. There is no profit split on sim, get it?! Clear? No split under $10K but 90/10 after?! On sim? So TST is paying themselves 10% of your sim gains?!
It's a simulated engine. I don't scalp and generally use market orders with these programs as I'm more concerned with getting filled across all accounts versus saving a tick. What do you mean by there is no way you can pay out sim-trading gains as that's literally what they do? From what I can tell the fills are generally good and realistic. They don't need to game anything as most people suck in this game. Their largest trader ran up $500K in SIM profits and was paid. Could have been a poster boy in order to sell the dream to the masses. And yes, they did tighten up their operation to limit their exposure and risk as I'm sure a select few ran up some really nice sized accounts. I was one of them last year with an 80K day. Right now, it's capped at your account size, i.e., anything in excess of 150K goes to waste. You won't be able to take LIVE anything more than 150K. Still a nice number, IMHO. Sure. The difference between Apex and other firms like Topstep is that Topstep does not keep you indefinitely on SIM. That's one way to see it. The other way to see it is that they pay you 10 % less than they'd have to. With a live account, they do skim your actual $$$, though. The reason these firms are so massively profitable is because most people suck and they keep churning accounts. With their credit card on file it's only too easy to try just one more time. Only around 80 % of programs are passed. And out of the 20 % who passes - most don't take a meaningful payout.
It cannot be realistic if orders aren't impacting the book. I cannot reconcile that they actually mention a split on sim and that you think that's reasonable. I can see why you people are attracted to these scams. GLHF.
I understand your concerns and had written off these firms a few years ago, but after their rules improved and they allowed you to trade 5 accounts in tandem it seemed like a good deal to me. I don't have the exact figure here, but I've taken out around $50K from Topstep alone. If you follow the rules, they will pay you quickly, no questions asked. So it's not a scam in my book. The only scam may be the illusion of actually trading a 150K account (which in reality is a $4.5K account) and the illusion that they're actually looking for trading talent as the business model is geared towards collecting fees from failed traders. It's a game like anything else... The main reason why doing business with these get-funded programs is a bad idea... | Elite Trader