WTS, EchoTrade, T3 - Leave a Review

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by Leeroy Jenkins, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. Okay, so I currently trade for a prop firm. Rates aren't terrible, payout kind of sucks, but there is no capital contribution which is nice. The deal-breaker is that I'm stuck at 1,000 shares max size and they aren't interested in taking us beyond that without a capital contribution, so my earnings are limited. Plus, their daily loss limits are very tight. I'm not contributing capital because they refuse to offer me more competitive rates.

    I have spoken with WTS, EchoTrade, and T3 (they never return my phone calls).

    My offer from WTS (actually it was a sub of WTS) is .002/share, 99% payout, Fusion DMA platform was offered free w/ about $150 a month for data fees. Everyone I've spoken with so far has been very nice. What I do not like, at all, is their financial statements. They have a liability for bank overdrafts on their December, 2012 statement of operations for about $40,000 and they only carried $21,000 cash on hand (red flag for cash management issues in my experience, but I'm not a CPA). Given how prominent they make themselves look in the trading community, I'm shocked that their total assets, including members equity, is a meager $7 million. I consider my current firm small-mid sized and their total assets including members equity is roughly $30 million. This sketches me out considering how big and popular they sound. Additionally they were dinged earlier this year with about a $20k fine for transacting under net capital requirements. Double sketch. I put them on the back burner only for the reason that I'm not 100% confident my capital would not be at high - very high risk on their books. I look at it like buying a stock that I can't sell for a year - I'm less interested in buying & holding a stock with potential cash issues.


    My offer from EchoTrade was .0025/share, they didn't disclose a payout but I'm guessing 95-99%, and they sent me a list of software and data fees. It looked like it would run me about $410/month. They offer volume incentive rebates that would make the monthly software/data fees less intimidating, maybe $100-200. They told me that it's essentially free if you trade 1m share a month. Solid financial statements from Echo. I think they may have had one violation in the past but I can't recall what it was for - don't quote me on that, though.

    T3 never responded to me, so screw them. I had heard positive comments about them on this site and called them twice. Both times someone told me they would have a representative call me back as soon as they were available. Done w/ them, but would still like to hear any comments from current traders. In particular I'm interested in rates and software.

    I would be grateful to hear from you if you have personal experiences at any of the above mentioned firms. A detailed response about your experiences with software, management, cash payments, capital contributions/withdrawals, execution speed, comparative analysis between any of the firms above and past firms you've worked with, etc. would be appreciated. I'm not in a rush to make a decision, but I've narrowed it down to WTS and Echo. I've heard positive comments about WTS regarding receipt of payments, but other individuals I've spoken with in the industry have said "they are at the bottom of this business" - word for word. That scares me a bit, but people are stupid so I remain open-minded.

    I haven't heard anything negative about Echo. I have tested their version of Sterling Pro and the demo seems "okay", but it's not worth $400+/month. I would also be grateful for anyone who can speak about their experiences with either the Sterling Pro or Fusion DMA platforms in a live trading environment (i.e. hitting out of or bidding/offering 1,000+ shares at a time in a fast market).

    If you have any questions about my firm, pm me directly, please. If you don't want to share your experience in a reply to this post, also please feel free to pm me directly. Thanks a lot for any insight from active prop traders on this board.
     
  2. I just want to thank the people who sent me PMs in response to this posting. Lots of helpful, unbiased, information and a lot of confirmation on my current analysis on these firms.

    Thanks again!
     
  3. I trade with WTS. is it the cheapest of the 3 and have the most services in house (their own software, their own reporting system, their own back-end etc). it's not great and the customer service sucks but if you are a good troubleshooter you can save a lot with them.
     
  4. Thanks for the input, EvO

    May I ask a few questions?:

    1) How long have you traded with WTS?

    2) Do you like Fusion? Are there any other platforms you can compare this to?

    3) When reviewing your costs, do you notice any small markups for ECNs or other fees? Experienced traders know that you will see (1) Broker commissions, (2) ECN fees, (3) SEC fees, and (4) TAF fees [the name of this last fee varies], and sometimes additional fees. In this question, I'm not referring to data fees.

    Do you see a (.0024) rebate where you should see a (.0025) rebate, for example? Some comments I've read hinted that the ECN rates they charge are not precisely what is quoted from the ECNs.

    Thanks again for the feedback, EvO. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post here.
     

  5. What firm requires no capital upfront ?
     
  6. X2 highly doubt it's possible but if so please tell. I've heard the same thing about T3 not responding.
     
  7. Peternam,

    There are a number of firms that don't require a capital contribution up-front. I don't want to talk about the firm I work for on here, but it's not Getco quality, I assure you.

    I don't have a lot of nice things to say about my firm, but that's just because it unfortunately isn't a good fit for me and my trading style. That doesn't mean it's not a good fit for someone else, so I'm not going to trash it, which will inevitably happen if I expand on this topic. I knew my deal probably wasn't good going in, so it's on me. Plain and simple.

    Sorry I can't talk more about it man, but those deals are out there if you're interested. Just gotta put those Google skills to the test. They aren't the best deals, though. You will give yourself a 70% pay raise just by backing yourself, seriously - at least if you trade like I trade. These types of contracts that some firms offer are purely designed to prey on recent grads who don't know any better.
     
  8. Great point capital where they back you to trade 1 share is what I'm guessing .

    The firms your are inquiring about don't back you unless you have a track record, so at that point why not aim higher? Ronin Capital for example will back you with a great track record and the ability to show your strategy. Getcho is an hft shop, are you trading with an htf?

    You can check out avatar, they might back you with good sheets, but more likey will want you to put up something for awhile, then down the road might open a separate account to mimic your account and you might get 1/2.
     
  9. Elwood

    Elwood

    It seems Echo is your best fit. I have no experience with Echo.

    WTS is ok. WTS works for rebate and HFT trading. I have experience with WTS.

    T-3 use to be a great group of traders but it seems that T-3 is all about selling education now. I have experience with T-3.

    Elwood
     
  10. riddler

    riddler

    I am not sure about T3 but i have heard some firms PURPOSELY dont call you back as a test in order to see how hungry you are to trade with them. What they want you to do is take it upon yourself to visit them in person. BEWARE, they may act real nice at first and have you go into a private room under the guise of " filling out paper work". Once you are in there, they could start hazing you and then have you trade in front of about 10 guys to see if yiu have what it takes. Be strong, stay focused, and dont be intimidated. They will search dor weakness. In fact, when you first go in and introduce yourself they will have you sit with a real friendly guy who acts like he is basically a pawn but innocently asks questions about you and even what some of your fears are. You should be fine.
     
    #10     Aug 22, 2013