Hello folks. I am a new trader and just had a disastrous experience. I would appreciate some input from more experienced traders. Yesterday (2/07/2025) at 10:00 ET the NQ futures market dropped about 130 points in an instant. Sadly, I was long with 4 contracts at that moment. I'm trading with the NinjaTrader desktop platform. No prop firm just my own money. NinjaTrader has a "Daily Loss Limit" risk setting that I had set to -$2000. I also had a stop loss set for the trade, about 10 points below breakeven. When the market dropped, the Daily Loss Limit as well as my stop loss for the trade were totally bypassed. NinjaTrader blew past them and finally closed my positions at the bottom of the 130 point drop for a loss of about $10K for me! Really devastating actually. I've only been trading with real money for 2 weeks. Up until now I have not experienced any noticeable slippage with NT. I know that some slippage can happen but is this much really legitimate or did NT screw up? When it blew past my stop loss my chart momentarily froze and NT kicked out 2 error messages, both reading as follows: "Order type not permitted while the market is in pre open [Order parameters are invalid] affected Order: Sell 4 Market" Do these error messages suggest that maybe NT screwed up? Or is this kind of event something that sometimes happens, where your stop loss can be essentially ignored for 100 points of movement before it's executed? I would really appreciate some input on this. Not sure how I can even continue trading if this is something that you can't protect against. Thanks so much for any advice.
How to Get Forensic Logs & Evidence from NinjaTrader If you suspect that NinjaTrader malfunctioned or that your stop loss wasn’t executed properly due to a platform issue, you’ll want to collect forensic data to analyze what happened. Here’s how you can do that: 1. Retrieve NinjaTrader Log & Order Execution Data NinjaTrader keeps detailed logs of order executions, errors, and connection issues. These can help determine if the issue was caused by: Platform malfunction (e.g., NinjaTrader freezing or failing to submit orders). Broker-side or exchange-side rejection. A legitimate market condition (i.e., a liquidity gap). Steps to Get Your NinjaTrader Logs: Open NinjaTrader and go to Control Center > Log Look for any error messages around the time of the event. Copy and save these logs. Find Detailed Log & Trace Files: Go to: Documents > NinjaTrader 8 > Log Find the file for 02/07/2025 (log files are named by date). Also, check Documents > NinjaTrader 8 > Trace for more technical details. Export Trade History & Execution Reports: Control Center > Trade Performance Select 02/07/2025 as the date range. Click Generate to see execution history. Export the data (right-click > Export to Excel). 2. Check with Your Broker (Order Execution Report) Your broker (who actually routes orders to the exchange) keeps a timestamped execution report of all orders. Contact your broker’s trade desk and request a detailed order execution report for 02/07/2025. Ask them: Did the stop loss order reach the exchange? Was it rejected, delayed, or held locally by NinjaTrader? Was there an exchange outage or technical issue? 3. Check Exchange (CME) Market Data for That Time To confirm whether this was an actual market event or a platform issue, check raw market data: Use a service like CME Group’s Time & Sales (CME DataMine) to pull historical tick-by-tick data for NQ at 10:00 ET on 02/07/2025. Compare the price movement with your execution data. If the price actually moved 130 points instantly, it’s likely a market event, not a platform error. 4. Contact NinjaTrader Support If the logs show an error like "Order type not permitted while the market is in pre-open", that could suggest: A platform bug. A broker-side restriction. A technical issue that caused NT to reject the stop-loss execution. To open a support ticket: Help > Email Support in NinjaTrader Attach your log and trace files Clearly describe the issue, including: Exact time of the drop (10:00 ET) The order details (stop loss, number of contracts, slippage) The error messages Final Steps & What to Look For Once you have all this data: Compare your logs with broker execution reports – If your stop-loss was never sent to the exchange, that’s a platform issue. Compare with CME market data – If the price moved 130 points instantly, it was likely a legitimate market event. Check NinjaTrader’s response – If they confirm a glitch, you may be able to request compensation from your broker. This process will help you determine if this was unavoidable market behavior or a NinjaTrader failure. If NT or your broker was at fault, you can escalate further for possible compensation. Would love to hear what you find! I can tell you this hasn't happened to me in over 30 years when I traded NY futures markets. So it's very rare now, but then again I have NEVER TRADED with NT EVER.
First of all, don't trade the NQ index. If you want to start try the MNQ market. When you learn the ropes then you can move to NQ. https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/equities/nasdaq/micro-e-mini-nasdaq-100.html 10 points is nothing for the Nasdaq, the usual range is 200 to 300 a day. About Ninja Trader specifically read this thread. https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum...m-technical-support-aa/1117594-stop-loss-gaps Also this is about slippage, something you need to know about https://bookmap.com/blog/dont-get-slipped-a-short-guide-to-slippage-and-trading
There are no guarantees of any kind for your limit order or stop limit or MIT etc. Basically, it's either the broker or you who will have to eat the loss. The market does not have to trade through a price and can gap down. If large liquidations in the cash market or dark pools or even OTC (return swap, etc.) occur (also big interest rate moves), limit orders can slip huge and you get wrecked. It sucks but you have to either quit or use this as a motivation to learn and improve. I've lost $9400 in one day, so I know how it feels.
You have no basis for arbitration. You don't know how stops work. You were long into NFP. Stop limit vs stop market. Either you don't fill or you pray you're not the low print on the move. I know you think you have an out with the error codes but you don't. All you're going to do is get booted from the FCM and make it more difficult to find another (FCM) that will take your business.
There is only 1 thing you can do, don't have open positions during major news like NFP. NQ moved 140 points in seconds, so yes, 100 point slippage during NFP is absolutely normal. NT did not screw up, you did. Also, why are you trading 4 contracts NQ when you don't want to risk more than $2000 per day? That's something like 25 points, 25 point moves can happen in a few seconds these days, you are trading way to much size for the risk you want to take.
NinjaTrader has a "Daily Loss Limit" risk setting that I had set to -$2000. This is what is worrisome to me about this event. I question the ability of any software company to become a broker also. It's just not a good thing for the client, great for the software company. Long time ago I visited Cyber Trader's offices in Austin Texas before they sold out to Schwab. They were piggybacking off successful traders and manipulating all sorts of fills on clients. I like having Software that focuses on that alone and Brokers who focus on that alone. TradeStation did the same thing and I can tell you for a fact their data is manipulated and therefore the client will always be at a disadvantage to the house just like gambling.
That's a nanny-setting. Many brokers have that client and server-side (broker, not exch) and it's meaningless. Yes, it makes the client believe it's inviolate but they all have boilerplate to the contrary. A daily loss limit has nothing to do with a solo order unless that order would trigger the loss limit and it means exactly shit to anyone.
If they offer that feature and it doesn't work or hasn't been well tested and they use that feature to attract unwitting newbs into entering the high risk high reward game of trading. Then they could be held responsible because they have a fiduciary responsibility. They are professionals he is not. I see your point and agree but they offered him a service that did not work.
The broker will caution that it's related to net liq and not stop-orders. Clearly the OP didn't know that. Walking around blind w/o a cane.