bill o'reilly said something like...once you open the door to allowing civil unions between gays, you open the door to other kinds of relationships. WELL GUESS WHAT, the door never should have been opened in the first place with TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE. that's the real problem; that never should have happened. instead of a list of "valid relationships" according to the government, government should play no role--including traditional christian marriage. time and time again, this is NOT about christians being treated fairly; THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THE SPECIAL TREATMENT THEY'VE HAD FOR DECADES. they will lose it, though; progress will not be stopped no matter what you people think. our government should not care if i have 1 wife, 0 wives, or 15. they should also not care if a man is with a man, woman is with a woman, or a man is with another man and 3 women! GOVERNMENT SHOULD GET THE F OUT. males were not meant to be married, anyway. if you disagree, you're disagreeing with me AND NATURE.
Consider the effect of the above philosophy on kids. A huge body of secular evidence is growing and showing that the stats show kids generally do better in a "traditional household".
if that's true or not, that's just too damn bad. the role of government is not to just care for kids. people are going to get along in a relationship or they're not. a legal document saying you're married won't magically fix the real problems.
Tangential comment: in my opinion, your last paragraph shows how quickly atheism degrades into simple hedonism and even narcissism where only the individual is considered w/ little to no regard as to what is best for any children involved...
The problem with your statement is this: many non-Christian people don't have a problem with "drawing a line in the sand" morally. Example: they feel that society will be worse if they allow men to marry more than one wife for example. They don't care what I think about it, or what you think about it - they just don't want some 45 year old guy with three wives (probably two of them cousins) moving in next door to them. Most non-Christian people don't have a problem with setting community standards. They're saying, "Fine. If you want to have five teen mommas, that's great. But go do it somewhere else. In our neighborhood, we want just one wife." Is there anything wrong with people setting community standards? I don't think so! But, again, this shows the lack of moral backbone that extreme moral relativism has. Everything HAS to be okay and NO community standards can be tolerated.
Gordon, Ok so you don't believe in god. Great. You don't believe in religion -- wonderful. Now you are saying that marriage is wrong. Since marriage is a direct result of natural forces within the universe constructing specific cultures and societies, you are arguing that social evolution made a mistake and the world would be better without them. Why not just skip to step Z and call yourself god? You're already the best trader and now you know more about how the universe should work than evolution. Get some followers and get a nice compound somewhere in Texas. Perhaps there will be a religion started one day with you as their choosen one?
it is time to make a point for those who do not understand. here is the typical crap i get: people think i bash religion just because i want to be negative and insult people. GET A CLUE. religion has SCREWED UP THE PLANET. where are the community standards going to come from when 90% or whatever people are brainwashed by religious crap and believe in morals some idiot (jesus christ) said thousands of years ago?!?! the standards are going to come from PURE BS and impact my life TODAY. when i attack religion, it has nothing to do with just being an insulting asshole. i do it because i see how it has screwed up the world in so many ways and i'm trying to show people this. it's SO ANNOYING, though, because you're all brainwashed and don't listen to reason or logic. well if you guys aren't going to do that, then i'll annoy the hell out of you to get my points across.
You're missing my point. I was NOT sticking up for religion in any way. I was pointing out that imo a huge block of non-Christian Americans would vote w/o a blink of an eye to keep polygamists out of their neighborhoods. They would NOT do it because they have been brainwashed by Christians. Let me put it another way: they would outlaw polygamy in their community w/o any clinical studies, any journal citations and most importantly to what I'm saying, w/o any theological backing. (Most Americans could care less about what Christians think.) They would be willing to go with common sense and keep polygamists out of their neighborhoods. And that's my second point: extreme moral relativism has difficulty even outlawing NAMBLA. If I carry your original fourth paragraph to its logical extreme, you can justify almost anything. If you wonder why atheism has little relevance culturally, this is exactly why. It has no life. It stands for nothing and means nothing because it can take no moral stands on even the simplest issues. What value is there in a philosophy that capitulates to everyone and fights for noone - not even children?
You're entitled to your opinion of course. But I do not see how Judaism or Christianity has done either one of these. In our culture it's easy to insult Christians. A couple decades of the MTV, SNL culture has made that fashionable. But let me ask you a question with regard to the Jewish peoples: do you really think Judaism has "screwed up the planet"? I'd like to hear you justifty that one. I for one have only the utmost respect for the Jewish people, their religious, moral and historical traditions. I feel that they have had a very, very positive impact on the planet earth. But I would like for you to explain in detail how you think they Jews have helped destroy our globe. Maybe you'd like to start another thread?