Arguments Against Flat or ConsumptionTax?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by ktmexc20, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. Excellent commentary...

    No...the main issue here is that nothing is going to meaningfully change ...unless things are really changed...

    Albeit that the US may have the best governmental system in the world currently ...does not mean that it cannot be vastly improved...

    If one is pleased with special interest groups and oligopolists controlling tax money flow movements by all means do not change the system...

    The USA could be the first country to further improve its democracy by adopting an Internet based government whereby the US population has far more input than it has today....

    Furthermore power needs to be taken away from a handful of priviledged people who carry their cronies against the face of the public interest....

    There is absolutely no question that both Cheney and Bush were aware of much higher oil prices to come because of their forced actions in Iraq...There was absolutely no mention of this to the public in any form whatsoever....

    Furthermore if the public had in depth biographies of both Bush and Cheney there would be no question that neither would be in office today...

    The US needs to get out of the position of always having to choose between two people...and should never allocate the kind of power that the people have in office today...

    Both the tax system and the government system can be more simplified....reduced in size and influence...and fall in place to serve its public such that the public truly does live in a truer form of democracy....

    ......................................................................................

    There is no doubt that a consumption tax offers society the most liberties...The excellent points made on this thread point towards issues such as categorization of what is a consumption good...However this is not an impossible impasse...and should be resolved because of the freedoms that the new structure would bring....and the much needed positive economics...

    What is clear is that it is possible to make legal changes in both the US government and the tax system that will make the US more competitive versus the worlds total economy...

    What is clear is that an increase in public freedom and an improvement in economic competitiveness are worth facing the problems of bringing them about...

    What is not clear is how to enforce and effect these changes in the face of the current and failing system...

    Remember that it is far more intelligent to keep fires from happening rather than reacting to a fire already taking place....

    Also you can lose a lot of money with outright dishonest people...or lose a lot of money with stupid honest people...You lose the money either way....
     
    #111     Aug 5, 2006
  2. hans37

    hans37


    I agree with the fair tax proposal even if it gets implemented after I have accumulated the majority of my net worth.

    However I shudder at the thought of a pure democracy.
    (REF. France and their immigrant muslim problem)
     
    #112     Aug 5, 2006
  3. 10% consumption tax (0% on essential items such as food)
    10% flat tax (with first 25,000 tax free)
    0% Capital Gains (to promote investment)
    $5,000 baby bonus to the parents of each child under 16.
    0 corporate welfare, farm subsidies, et al. Government spending on anything but education, defense, infrastructure, and justice is a waste.
     
    #113     Aug 6, 2006
  4. hans37

    hans37

    one mans luxury is anothers essential item.
    ramen or alaskan king crab legs.
    In florida potatoes are tax free, potato chips are not.

    5,000 baby bonus HOLY CRAP BAD IDEA they already get wic , till age 5, then min 12 yrs free indoctrination.

    That's like promising every teenie bopper out there a kia if she will pop out a baby or 2.
     
    #114     Aug 6, 2006
  5. DblArrow

    DblArrow

    Very interesting thoughts and opinions...here are a couple more.

    For most people (those paying the payroll tax) to see the need or to say there is no need(for tax reform), they should see how much is being taken away each and every paycheck. Yes I realize there is the listing of the tax and how much it is but I think the individual needs to be responsible for his own taxes. I have to pay quarterly taxes - make every individual write his own check to the IRS every quarter, then there will be some serious debate.

    I think the idea of taxing all people one way or the other is the best idea. All get taxed. Make 5000 pay a tax, make 500000 and pay a tax, OR spend 5000 pay a tax or spend 500000 pay a tax.

    I do not believe it is the responsibilty of the government to take from the guy who made the 500000 and give it to the guy that made 5000.

    Do away with all deductions and expemptions and lobbyists - truely make it simple. Each time they have a tax simplification it gets worse and the IRS can't even keep track of it. Two different answers when you call for help.

    I like the idea of the Fair Tax - it is not a consumption tax - it is a retail sales tax. Not second hand Joe to Tom tax. Not an ebay tax unless the seller is selling new never before sold item. It has provisions for a rebate on lifes essentials. Read up on it - do not change the terms of it then debate it.

    I also like the flat tax idea - but it needs to be simple no deductions no exemptions no loopholes everyperson making any money pays a tax. Harder to collect I do believe do to under the table cash transactions.

    I think there are merits to both or any other ideas - but we will have to get past the idea that the savers will get screwed or the poor will get screwed or this group will get screwed or.....somebody will have to get screwed and then life will go on.

    Make 'em pretty, Chris
     
    #115     Aug 6, 2006