www.fairtax.org Personally i`m sick of paying multiple layers of taxes. I would be perfectly content with paying the IRS their end of year nut. I`m a patriot and realize the gubment needs to pay for things. However getting taxed in multiple layers accounting for a very large portion of our income is one of the major reason we had a revolution. If you haven't ever kept track of how much your paying in taxes outside of the IRS`s you should. It will make you sick to your stomach. Try it for one month...tally all your receipts and anything you paid in taxes outside of the IRS. Time for a tea party...... oh and lets not forget the AMT.....most likely within the next 5 years most of us will be paying it..wasn't that for the top 1% of earners? Pucker up bitches!
I agree Liber, I think that has sort of been my point all along. Whether the fed takes your income or you pay a consumption tax people will try to avoid the event. A national sales tax will create a huge underground economy for goods and services and the resulting enforcement effort will need to be gigantic. The current system of taxation is actually far more efficient. It is the size of government that is actually killing us. By the year 2010, 50% of the population will work for either the federal, state, or local government. That is sickening.
Hold on here, the muni bond interest is not taxable to make building projects more affordable for states and local government entities. So you can either let guys like Perot buy muni's or everyone can pay higher local taxes.
ditto for the consumption tax I'm sorry but you're just plain ignorant concerning the features of the fair tax proposal.
Obviously from the reactions this post has generated I need to define some terms for the rational ,for the irrational OH well you live in your world anyway. I define persons who are wealthy(group 1) as those who have assets available that were gained not through income and quite possibly have had no taxes assessed. Which is wholly different from group(2) which presumably did accumulate their assets through through income or capital gains tax. Some of you people need to wake up and realize that income tax has nothing to do with taxing the wealthy. It always amazes me how many people believe that persons who earn high incomes are synonymous with those who have a high degree of wealth.
I used to think the flat tax was a good idea to eliminate loopholes, but several years ago, using IRS data, I analyzed the consequences of a flat tax. Taking total tax revenue divided by adjusted gross income for all taxpayers, I came to the conclusion that there is NO WAY the government can implement a flat tax without taxes for the middle class going up. If you give exemption to the poor, then that would mean the middle class tax burden would have to go up even more to come up with the same revenue. This is because the rich pay a large portion of the total tax bill right now and a flat tax would give them another tax cut. SOMEBODY"S got to cough up the money and if it's not the rich, not the poor, only the middle class is left. If anybody doubts that, calculate your tax bill as a percentage of adjusted gross income and compare that percentage to the (undoubtedly optimistic) flat tax percentage proposed. In addition to that, there would undoubtedly be a shortfall because any time you tinker with the tax code you create loopholes and it won't take long for the accountants to figure them out. The wealthy would have access to the same kind of vehicles they have now to move money around like a shell game to minimize their taxes--corporations, trusts, holding companies, etc., etc. The consumption tax is not worthy of consideration because it is even more regressive than an income tax. As a percentage of income, the less you make the more you spend. Again more of the burden would be shifted to the working class. The main proponents of the flat tax typically use emotional arguments that appeal to the masses, e.g. "fire the IRS," "close the loopholes for the rich," and the ever popular "it will create jobs." Sadly, most of the people in this country believe such nonsense. To paraphrase George Carlin, this country was bought and paid for a long time ago and the idea that government operates with the interest of the people at heart is laughable. Regardless of what happens to the tax code, the IRS will end up collecting even more taxes from the working class.
Sorry to disagree with you, but your first line mentions the wealthy and your second line gives me the plight of the top 5% earners. I contend that those two groups are not the same. The truly wealthy who do not derive their money from income can basically get a free ride in this country(on the federal level). Oh by the way I'm opposed to any estate tax.
So what of it. I say quit subsidizing poverty and the bad behavior that causes it. Poverty is supposed to suck, and we should not be holding those people down who want to escape from it through excessive taxation.
How much do the top 5% earn? If it is over 50%, then of course it is fair that they pay over 50% of total taxes (federal income, state, Social, Medicare, other). How much DO the top 5% earn and pay? Does anyone have some reputable figures (census, Statistical Abstract of the US)?
The flat tax would be what 20% max? I am asking seriously because it has slipped my mind. Our household qualifies for the middle class. Using an aggressive tax strategy I believe we pay 22-27%. I don't think the flat tax is going to hurt us one bit. This doesn't include paying several hundred to our accountant to do our taxes. That said I think it will be tough to pass with all of the lobbyists and special interests that benefit from the current tax code. It comes down to whoever wants it more, just like sucess in trading or anything esle. Look at imigration debate for example. Until Joe Public starting raising cane nationwide the congress didn't give a crap. Once JP barked louder than the corporate special interests congress started to do something. Unless JP really wants a flat tax nothing will be done, period.