Day trade with around 2k-3k funding myself

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by kingfisher1111, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. BAT31


    $800? Shit, I spend $1500 on groceries alone. And $2100 on a mortgage. I have an investment account of ~310K. Previously, it was a trading account of $125K, which I couldn't get to grow fast enough. Even at $310K, I don't think that is enough for me to trade Futures and rest easily knowing that is my only source of income.

    I need more than that, at least $500k to even consider quitting my job and trading for a living.

    I, too, work in IT.
    #41     Jul 28, 2020
    Bugsy likes this.
  2. Turveyd


    I pretty much quit at 3K, good job really, business is DEAD as DEAD, not a business phone call since 24th June 2020 that's SLOW to the MAX :(

    Programmer here / anything that'll pay, you ??

    I'd prefer more than $800 but not much to do, take 3K out soon for the BMW not quite yet mind.
    #42     Jul 28, 2020
  3. BAT31


    Systems administrator, mainly storage and cloud.
    #43     Jul 28, 2020
  4. Turveyd


    Think most of the people on here are IT, 33 years of IT, had enough!!
    #44     Jul 28, 2020
  5. BAT31


    In 2002, three years after graduating from college, I changed careers from accounting to IT. In 2004, I will never forget a veteran saying to me that he will be glad when he can move on from IT. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

    Fast forward to 2020, I don't have the same zeal. I find myself studying charts more than view keeping my IT skills sharp. I don't even want to pick up a book or view a video on IT.
    #45     Jul 28, 2020
    richie90 likes this.
  6. What they said. You can day trade with $3k but it would be severely limiting and limited. But you can do this. Scrape up another $1k. Fund TWO $2k accounts with different brokers. Now you got 6 day trades per sliding 5 day period. Just call it 6 day trades per week but it's actually in any rolling 5 trading day period.

    I have never traded with a cash account but it looks like a bit of a PITA and you lose some flexibility. Still it is a viable option, yeah.

    Another thing you can do is "night trade". That's what I call it. Do your scans in the late afternoon. Open positions in the last 15 minutes of regular trading hours. If your broker gives you post-market trading privileges, even better but still try to buy in (assuming long positions in bull market) by 1600 NY time. Picking stocks is a lot different from day trading the morning session. I suggest you open a paper account and trad. e ONLY overnight for a couple months, and get used to the market, before you do this on a regular basis. Okay so anyway then wake up early early, like a half hour before your broker allows you to trade. Now you can sell anything you got with no daytrade counter advance. If a stock has been taking off in the morning and nosediving at lunchtime for the last few days, look for it to behave the same way. And so on. Sell when you think it has reversed. Or just hold on to it. Whatevah. IN A STRONG BULL MARKET, you can do pretty good buying at the last minute and holding overnight. TBH you can do pretty good in a strong bull market doing just about anything reasonable besides randomly picking short positions, but that's another discussion. This style of trading pretty much doubles your fun and profits.

    Now back to day trading and your 6 daytrades. Yeah, assuming you have two accounts. You can do like two daytrading days, or just one if your trading style is more in a scalping nature. And you still have some action with your overnight holds. It is a good idea to always have one day trade in reserve, though, in each account, so at the last minute you can bail out of a trade that is going against you.

    I believe a newbie with a small account really needs to keep it small and tight when it comes to risk and position size. Once you have a few months experience and have started making profit, I sort of lean away from the pack. I think if you have a small account and you want to grow it in a meaningful way, and not be working for a nickel an hour, and if it is money you can afford to lose, an increase in risk can be a sensible plan. If it's just money and you can make more, then as long as your risks are commensurate with your profits, why not bet out big? BUT... it needs to be funded by more or less expendable funds, and traded by a trader with a proven track record and reasonable continued expectation of profit, in market conditions that the trader well understands and is familiar with. Just a couple grand, hey you can mow yards and powerwash houses and make that back. Now if you were just a couple thou from trading up to the magic $25k mark, of course you need to get more conservative, not more aggressive. Set your risk level accourding to your situation, not the rule book. A raw beginner should be trading crazy small positions. That in effect reduces your tuition, so to speak, and allows you to stay in "school" longer. Paper trading IS NECESSARY but it only teaches you just so much. Real market conditions teach real market trading. And the way to jump into real markets is with real small positions. If you are past this stage, and you can afford to lose all or most of your account and be back at the table in a week or two, but you want to trade up and not fund up from your humble beginnings, think about where your risk limits need to be instead of just accepting the conventional wisdom. You can make $10 a day on your $3k account. You can make $150 in a good day on your $3k account. Obviously you have to assume a lot more risk to do the latter but you can be a real stick in the mud and make the former. And the risk required to make $150 can easily have you losing $50 or even $100 in a day. And it is twice as hard to make it back as it was to make it in the first place.

    I started trading last year with only $10k. Later I funded up to $50k but I am very familiar with the PDT and how it affects your trading. I stopped trading in October and started again a couple months ago with an underfunded account again and no practical means of funding back up to that level right now, so the plan is to trade up instead of fund up. It can be done though it isn't easy. Current market conditions are very conducive to trading up, if you don't mind a little extra risk in return for extra profit. It will be the same when the next crash comes, though of course it will be bearish rather than bullish action. Sluggish sideways markets are a whole nother critter. I'm doing okay, though still working at the trading for chimp change if you look at it on an hourly basis. I've made $97 today and of course it all stays in the account. I can't pay myself anything. But every $100 day is another $100 closer and worse comes to worse, when I am close I CAN go ahead and fund up out of checking. So progress is being made, slowly. Make 1% CONSISTENTLY and you double your account in 70 days. It is tough to do that. You really have to be playing a hard game and managing your money intelligently, and picking your entries and exits, especially entries, with great care and thought. 140 days, quadruple. $3k quadrupled is almost half what you need for wide open day trading. Takes discipline, knowledge, and intelligence. Hard work, way more than what your profits are worth. And a little luck certainly doesn't hurt.

    Lastly, with a small account, DO NOT trade on your credit card, house or car note, or anything like that, and never trade on margin other than what will definitely be a day trade only. Trading, especially a trade of more than minutes in duration, with money you don't have, increases your exposure more than you can stand for long. Be careful with the short sales, too. Remember, zero is as low as a stock can go. So there is an ultimate limit to what you can lose on a long position. There is essentially no limit to how high a stock can go, and so no ultimate limit on your losses for a short position.

    Statistics run solidly against you being successful, let's not kid ourselves about that. All I am saying is that it is possible, not likely, but possible, to become successful starting with a small account. And the PDT rule doesn't have to be the death knell for your idea.
    #46     Jul 28, 2020
    richie90 and Turveyd like this.
  7. Turveyd


    I cant be arsed to do much coding either, not a good career to complicated and brain hurty fir too long.
    #47     Jul 28, 2020
  8. Turveyd


    Longest post ever winner award goes to the Growlymonster!
    #48     Jul 28, 2020
  9. Thank you. Please just display my trophy in the ET clubhouse.
    #49     Jul 28, 2020
    Quark and Turveyd like this.
  10. If you only have that amount of money and want to daytrade frequently then For stocks you need consider that you will most likely have to go to an offshore broker due to the US's PDT rule of having min $25K in your acct to daytrade and when going offshore you have more risk so if you must go offshore then pray you never have a problem with them as suing them will be virtually impossible if something improper happens or they become temporarily or permanently insolvent. When you have at least $25,000 USD (really more like $30,000 USD as you need a cushion above the minimum $25K threshold because if you make 1 trade and lose and go under $25K then you cant daytrade again until you deposit more funds to get your acct over $25K again) then with $25K USD or more you should consider moving to a US broker that has all funds in federally insured and regulated accounts. TD Ameritrade is decent but not great in my opinion. In my opinion Lightspeed Financial is very good for day trading and has much quicker fills on stocks generally speaking but their platform is not as feature rich as TD Ameritrade's ThinkorSwim (which is free) so if advanced charting is something important to you and you use Lightspeed you will either need to pay a large monthly fee for one of their better platforms
    or you will need to pay to use another companies charting platform like Trading View or the incredibly overpriced esignal charting platform - whereas with TD Ameritrade ThinkorSwim you get a pretty advanced all around platform for free.

    If you are more of a scalping daytrader who needs trade executions as fast as possible then a broker like Lightspeed in my opinion is usually best whereas brokers like Etrade Schwab and TD Ameritrade can certainly lag at times and for rapid fire scalper type traders that is usually unacceptable

    If you are trading futures (and not stocks) then certainly take a look at Tradovate and opening an account to trade micro emini's with that amount of money

    If you are just trying to day trade options and not really stocks or futures then that is an area where TD Ameritrade's ThinkorSwim platform is probably better than most other options trading platforms.

    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    #50     Aug 1, 2020