Thanks for your replies. The situation is happening as I am describing it. I have beliefs about what i am reporting, but not CNN sort of beliefs. It's 6:30 AM and i am running on about 4 hours sleep, kind of sick to my stomach as new information comes in. If anyone is being trolled, it's me. Yesterday new information came my way suggesting this is more about an unanticipated breakdown in priority's between joint bank account holders, one of which says he needs to prioritize taxes, and the other who has been using this account to renovate her mobile home on 10 or so rural acres, presumably with his full knowledge and consent, even though they live separately. He has been in her mobile home convalescing during the most recent two pay cycles, watching me work, sometimes making comments. Although i have over 25 years working with builders and homeowners, there are still far too many beliefs regarding collections, and not enough knowledge, to make my stomach feel better right now. Based on my experience, it is a deep seeded belief that the last payment is the one that is hardest to get, because the client no longer needs your work. My tools are 50% rolled up right now. Nothing has happened for a week. That's a move on the chessboard. It's a risky move because it starts to send the message that the party is over. If the party is over, why pay anything at all? The need for, and/or the desire for more work is still obvious. Under duress, i can say anything at all to them about wanting to continue to work, but while pay is still withheld, nothing is binding about that. It's what she wanted to hear in a phone call about 40 hours ago, which ended with a trip to the property, only to be invited to a BBQ next door neighbors, and nobody producing a check. So who is being trolled? What i say here about continuing to work is another thing. I am not under duress here. I still think a 50% weekly advance, sharing the risks of credit equally between the first part of the week (or day or whatever) and the last part, is a brilliant Trumpianesque sort of business solution for people who work under my sorts of circumstances. But the shit is getting deeper every day, every hour, and my feelings about extending even that much credit are rapidly changing. Anybody would continue working for 100% advance pay, giving zero credit. That's all speculation because of the unlikeliness any such deal would be accepted, even though, when you think about it, 99% of the time, workmen give 100% credit to clients, with only lien laws to fall back on. Why can't those tables be turned 100%? As resentment tends to creep into the situation, i am not even feeling like continuing with 100% advances and zero credit extended. The big question is, when, exactly, is the right moment to go full hostile, and/or full legal, either through bluff, or for real. I have been giving them time to hash this out. It's possible she believed she could get more money out of that account. What she's been doing is ethically questionable. If this is something he tolerated before, he is no longer, and only just now bringing it to my attention. I should have questioned it...why is this woman tapping a joint account when the man doesn't even live there? Does he share ownership of the 10 acres she lives on? I don't know! Why does she maintain legal marriage relationship, when they are semi-estranged? Yes, she visited him everyday he was in the hospital, and opens her home for convalescence...but she also can't stand his personality. Is she using him? Is she using me? Are we all just finding this out? Today, with this new information, the idea that this is because of what she may think of what i think of Trump is a lesser factor, but still a factor, imo. People who are realizing they may not be able to pay will look for anything to pick a fight. She is completely unable to fault any of the work i have done. There's no doubt, in my mind, that she has been picking my brain for weeks, trying to figure out how much guilt-by-association to apply to me. Even in this collections process, i have to tread lightly, at least at first, to avoid doing or saying anything that could be interpreted as picking a fight. Stopping work and asking for pay is not picking a fight. She is perhaps hoping i would do something rash under pressure. So while a grand bluff might be the right solution at some moment, i don't think that moment has been yesterday, or that it should be today, on the weekend. First, i am incapable of forging an attorney's letterhead, if that's what this means. Otherwise, i am perfectly capable of drafting some compelling language suggesting she should pay sooner than later. The challenge, with any of this, is documentation. She has only admitted she needs and/or wants to pay over the phone. Not through text, which is a little more document-able. That appears to be what's happening, and it's alarming. Documentation is a lot easier when there has not yet been enough expressed hostility to get me kicked off the property. I can literally walk into the house without knocking if i wanted to, like every day i've been here. The dogs won't attack me, and nobody will call the police. So being able to remain on the property while this collections process gradually escalates is, imo, a lot of power. Like yesterday, instead of coming into the party, i at least peeked inside and told them i was not ignoring them. In this brief interaction, i was able to talk with them about some aspects of the work i had done, and have them acknowledge i had done it, and that it looked great! And all the while i am recording this on my smart phone video/audio. You don't get that kind of documentation by bluffing. With access to the house, i can turn on the TV to some channel that will document the actual DATE, and prove that i am able to walk around the house taking pictures and video of my work, and of the address of business mail sitting on the counter-top, from the electric company for example, that connects the date, the place, the work, and the people together. While they have been watching NYPD Blue every night, so have i. I now have a text from one of the account holders telling me i have to collect from the other account holder. I have audio/video talking with her and others about how long i have been there, working, and establishing a general time period. All i need now is some documentation, other than a non-recorded phone call, where she admits she needs to pay, but cannot, for some reason. With as much as i've got, i may not even need that. Certainly, i have enough evidence to legitimately lien at least one, and maybe four properties. The first legal overture i will make will be snapshots of four liens, all filled out, and ready to file. The filing will cost perhaps $75 dollars each, not including the research. I just have to match locations with public records. It won't be a bluff. They will be filed if full payment is not received. After that, it's a process of documenting SERVICE papers, which unfortunately, i, nor any personally involved collector, can do PERSONALLY. It has to be done all through third parties. That's all made more difficult when the property is out in the country, and everybody owns dogs and guns. And that's why i still think i am in a position of relative power while i am still welcome on the property. I'm not sure why people are naturally disposed to fear letterhead from an attorney at law. What attorneys really know how to do is create documentation that any judge or jury should accept. Basically, anything that is served properly ought to be feared as much. That's mainly what my potential process involves. But i'm not ready to trigger that process yet, beyond gathering property data on Monday, and filling out lien forms.
Ok, i just installed some Android automatic call recording software to catch the next, if any, incoming call from my client, to further the documentation i already have. This should have been done a week ago, as i have already missed recording one important call. But you don't think of these things when you are doing some of the hardest work, collections, when one's mind state is likely to be most compromised. I know i don't think well with nervous tension, and is why i never work in weird, stupid pressure environments and circumstances. Gotta wonder about free software and suggestions to log in to get better, more "stable" recordings. But i figure NSA is recording everything already, with corporate back-doors, why shouldn't i have a few of my own? Whether the recording will be admissible in legal action in this state, i don't know yet. Re: documentation. I have sent texts. Three have directly addressed the situation, for example, asking to look over the time-log and approve or disapprove of the time, the work, the quality of the work...any feedback at all. If she agrees the work is good and acceptable, then obviously, the next logical step is to pay for it, as any kind of document-able acceptance is valuable. After addressing the issue directly, after talking directly about the elephant in the room, i don't see a point in repeating my requests. At that point i turn to satire and innuendo. For example, i sent her a link of my new blog that shows pictures of all the work i have done, for her and others recently. It's not a direct message, but it implies that i am capable and cognizant of creating documentation. Anything she expresses about the blog, if document-able, is valuable. I texted the link. Even with no response, it is a tacit acceptance/ownership of the work. I'm saying i worked on your house. If i didn't, you should object...now. Another example, i'm going shopping. I'm gone for days. Yes, i'm out shopping, but it's also innuendo. I'm spending money. The topic is money. I'm spending. I may also need to COLLECT some money to support the purchase of food, clothing and tools. Another example, i'm going to the casino to hopefully make $30 a day guessing the next number that comes up on the roulette wheel that appears in my mind. Believe it or not, there is some substantiation behind this claim, however, i know that i, personally, am not YET capable of doing it. So it's kind of laughable, that i would say, on April 1st, that i'm going to the casino to try and earn a living doing things that are risky (gambling). It's full of innuendo. I wouldn't have to go to the casino if i was being paid. Nor would i need to take time off from working to go do something risky...if i was being paid. So this is a way to repeat myself, without adding too much nauseum. Mowing the lawn is also a joke, good for April 1st. It's not hard to do for half an hour, in front of the big picture window, so everyone can see how much "i believe that hard work is the key to success"...another text i have sent. Its an excuse to be on the property, making myself conspicuous...to keep them thinking about the big elephant in the room. Apparently it worked, if you measure by the way the man came out and exploded, "I don't know what the hell you are up to, but...". I once worked with a crew of carpenters in Korea, all of us illegal, and so, without much leverage to collect on the thousands of dollars most of us were eventually owed. I got lucky by getting out a little earlier than some others, with 80% of what i was owed, but not after seriously yelling over the phone. I probably got lucky as there were still other carpenters there doing very needed work, and so, the last payment principle still applied. If i told them i was not getting paid, they too might leave, and the builder would be left with nobody to string along. One very shrewd carpenter got lucky, many months later, after he kept making very friendly phone calls, on a regular basis, talking about ANYTHING EXCEPT the big white elephant in the room (the need to be paid). Finally, after building what seemed like a friendship talking about marriages in the family, personal stuff, the debtor finally broke down and sent all the money owed, unable to justify it any longer. He was never asked beyond some point. It just came almost unexpectedly ,say, after the debtor was invited to the debtees wedding, and after the debtee offered to send canned food to help out the debtors financial situation. This is one very important lesson i have taken on board, although i am still owed $5k from a ruthless developer, and have not been able to apply the lesson. But it's why i have not exploded in anger, and so, still have access to this property. On one side of the property (the adjacent property) is an ENEMY, and on the other side is a FRIEND. So it occurs to me there may be some leverage i might have there that is not entirely clear to me. For example, at the BBQ the other night, when my client had already gone home, the neighbor said a couple things that i could have interpreted as warnings, and if their own relationship is on the fence, i may be able to use them to convey legally served papers...but probably only if they decide to end their friendship. They only thing holding that friendship together is love for Hillary, and hate for Trump. They joke about it with me, as if i'm on the other side of the "isle", mostly the wife. It's ok to joke about Flynn and Maxine Waters. But with my client, it's no joking matter. There is no way i could joke about Water's hair-do. Incidentally, the neighbors are potential clients, as they have already spoken to me about building their retirement home out of state. I don't think they know, YET, the problem i am having. I wonder what else they would think of their neighbor if they did. On the other side of the fence is a neighbor she wants shot as much as she wants Trump shot. But that neighbor has guns too, and practices in the back 40 just to remind everybody. He too could be useful, if he's willing to serve papers. I'm sure he'd like to know she wishes him dead...and just how much. Maybe that would motivate him to help me. Meanwhile, i hope that the breathing space i am allowing pays off.
As I try to relax, heading out to the ocean beach on Sunday, it dawns on me what the next logical step in this collections. I will be requesting a formal I.O.U. acknowledging the debt, and an honorable discharge. I will ask this be done by email. If she agrees, I will print it out and ask her to sign it as I leave the property. Obviously, if she/they can't agree to something so reasonable, then it would show just how deplorable, and dishonerable, Hillary supporters really are...all complaining how Trump doesn't pay people, and then they doing the same. This way, I can reasonably feel I have some security for possible payment down the road, and I can be on my way without further adieu. It's also the very best evidence to show, if and when I have to file liens. It's really a test to see if they plan to be honorable at all, or plan to show an intent to steal wages, and be held liable for triple the wages according to some state laws. Without this formal release, my exodus will involve more adieu, having to do with more immediacy in regards to liens, but mainly involving much more documentation of my exodus from the property...mainly to document that I am leaving peacefully, am not damaging any property, having all my property, and leaving them with all theirs. This would involve as many third parties as possible, such as an escort from the local sherif, or witness from the friendly, or enemy neighbors. If I can't get any of that then I have to load with one hand, and smart phone camera in the other. Since I doubt they want the extra attention I'll have to bring, I'm sure she'll want to do the honorable thing, and not the Hillary thing.
Well, during my overseas travels, I happen to have discovered the power of "psychological pressures" : - ask a set of very local "muscles" to come and "advise you" for just one hour ( and pay them the hour negotiated beforehand). - make sure the people who owe you see clearly you discussing in a very friendly way with these highly physical people. If a police car was also to pass and to ask if "all is ok there", the better on working the psychology of people who owe you.
Took me a while to understand this scenario but then the psychological pressure prevailed. Very interesting. Thinking more about my next step: I hope to motivate her to sign a debt agreement, with a payment plan, as the only way to avoid the charge of wage theft, with whatever consequences that involves. One statute in this state says when someone is terminated and not paid in three days, they can collect regular daily wages for up to 30 days after, if and when they are finally paid. Looking for a triple damage statute for this state but not finding it yet. I think it is rude that no one is officially terminating me, as the law may be a little different for people who quit. Are they that calculating about this? I once looked into getting help from the local government labor department that gets all the complaints about wage disputes. What a rabbit hole that was. It looked to me they were involved in some forms of wage theft, and charged a huge price for their collection muscle. One way they seemed involved was they would fine $1000 any unliscenced contractor for working, but had no such similar statute for anyone who hires an illegal (contractor). Then they seemed to cast a blind eye to the practice of classifying wage earners as independent contractors, or more specifically, 'piece workers'. It was all very weird as the corporate owner who was shorting me seemed very proud and confident of his relationship with a high officer in that department. But I know what he tried to do to me was dishonest, hiring me at some hourly, and then trying to turn me into an independent contractor, and worse than that, a piece worker who barely managed to earn minimum wage. It was even screwier than that. I am functioning as a contractor, as many custom contractors work mostly by the hour, because tasks, scope, and priorities change so much for custom work. Bidding for everything would disrupt continuity and cost more too. Depending on the law, they could try to fine me as such, but that would not make much sense as this is now a "sanctuary state" for illegals! No matter, I would risk that if I need to use the court/justice system. Fight it later. A friend of mine was functioning just as I am when, after competing for a job with a licenced contractor, authorities were called and they tried to fine him. He put up a major constitutionally based fight, and appeared to win when they gave up and pretended there was a loophole in the law for "neighbor helping neighbor". Coincidently, that's what I do too!
I'm out on a road trip in nature today with this gawd-awful feeling. It's a familiar feeling that comes along every couple three years when things go wrong. Different circumstances, same feeling. So I am reminded of some philosophical training I did many years ago that states that such feelings don't have anything to do with the circumstances that seems to conjure them up. The idea is that the feelings come first, from the pits of hell so-to-speak, and the circumstances follow. This is completely opposite from normal assumptions. Along with this analysis (there's a little more to it than that) a remedy is suggested. It involves not thinking beyond the feeling...the normal rational why the circumstances force the feeling, and then the scramble to rectify the circumstances. Rather, the idea is to simply sit with the feeling, feel it, observe it, and if possible, let it rise up like smoke from a fire. Nothing else helps any way. Walking in nature is no guarantee of help. Nothing to eat or drink or smoke can help either. It is treated instead like a fire in the psyche. Very much like a fire storm whipped up by the winds, forces we can't even see. I have a theory what starts the fire, but even if that analysis is correct, it's not any immediate relief. The feeling could come with any of what we consider the worst circumstances in "life". So I have decided this is not a good day to add to yesterday's communications with people who have entered the proverbial Twilight Zone in response to fear of the tax man. Maybe tomorrow too. However long this feeling persists I plan on sitting with it. The alternative is to run from it. There is really no clear, productive thinking till it's gone for its own, unexplained reasons.
So not two minutes after my last post I got a phone call from the man with the checkbook. The bad news is phone power was so low, the automatic recording software did not kick in. The good news is he called to clarify his apologetic message yesterday to mean that he had given her a blank check and made it her responsibility to make it out for FULL PAYMENT. HE said speaking on behalf of everybody, he hopes I will come back and continue on the deck. After we hung up he accidentally pocket dialed me back, so for a while I was able to listen in, kind of like the CIA, and check for signs of insincerity. From what I can tell it was sincere, he had made the call on behalf of everybody, and they seemed like in a good mood now. He was very upbeat, and thought the deck should be finished sooner than later. By that time it was 6 pm, and I got up (from sitting with the feeling) to go to the beach and get something to eat. Not to run from it, but just to move before the sun went down, and I was hungry. You would think the feeling would lift. No, not really. Walking up to the crashing surf does not help. Watching Trump vindication youtube vids didn't help either. I'm not doing anything to try and lift the feeling and will see if it is still there tomorrow. Meanwhile, I still sit with it, though it is less intense at the moment. Was there a connection between the apparent resolution and what I ultimately decided to do about it? Don't know for sure. But it is in line with the weird kind of resolutions I've heard about, and/or experienced from time to time.
Gotta say, I don't know how a deck could be so complicated you would bid on an hourly basis. All the contractors I use (RE investor) know better than to ask for payment until the job is finished. I will say on my own house we had renovations that cost over $450,000 and took 8 months, I did pay the guy (knew and trusted) in intervals, but for a deck??? Really? Its sounds like maybe you aren't well capitalized or you have had problems under bidding jobs. In any even, good luck.
First about my capitalization. It's like trading. If the size of one's position causes a loss of sleep, yes, probably undercapitalized. My credit extension is too big for most of my metrics. Too big for ratio to liquid cash, too big for illiquid savings...and if I was a CEO of a company and allowed this I should be fired by the board. Before, my idea of capitalized means there can never be any interdependence between paying my suppliers and employees and the next payday. I heard Microsoft, at one point, could pay wages for a year for each person hired. I don't have any employees, only occasional associates. And paying suppliers not a problem. I'm not supplying this job anyway. I have seen three prior paydays from this account for over $5k for me, and know of at least twice that for an associate of mine. The $4K outstanding is mostly for interior remodeling while the winter weather has been prohibitive. The scope of the deck has changed much since I first got here, when my associate was still here. With bidding, yes, you can build in progress pay, and a change order policy. But bids always build in a cushion, and change orders can be relatively expensive. What I do is like a continual change order. There is no blueprint, for interior or exterior work. It's "custom", where the client is given an opportunity to voice a new scope, or a preference, as things roll along, while I make most structural decisions for my self. I offer suggestions to save money and time, and some of my suggestions add money and time. I'd say most of my suggestions are adopted in some form, and the end result is usually something that turns out better than was ever initially visualized. It's not just the deck, it's a bunch of other potential projects with changing priorities. In theory, depending on my hourly rate, this is THE most cost efficient way of building/remodeling, if you have the patience. After this episode, my hourly rate is going to change, at least for this client, at least until it can be proven there is no more risk to getting paid. I expect this raise, or these raises to pay for this multi-day collection process. There will be a couple of other adjustments that put payments on a short leash. First things first. I just got back to the property this evening, and expect this to be resolved tomorrow, as promised. Nothing is going to happen, or be discussed, until that check has been driven to THEIR bank and CASHED. After that she will learn of my new rate and new terms. There will be an envelope with a list of weekly dates, and the TIME OF DAY each weekly pay date is due. My check needs to be in that envelope at that time or I start rolling up. If I roll back out, all that time will appear on the time-log as a charge. As each pay date is accomplished, it gets crossed off the list. The envelop will be, must be, kept in some conspicuous place, as if it was as important as a work permit. Next, as i fill in the online time-sheet daily, I also require daily acknowledgement of the hourly rate, and the days hours, in a way that can be documented, such as through text messaging. Any late pay, besides the cost of rolling up, and back out could raise my rate, again, and shorten the leash even shorter, to a daily pay period, or weekly advance pay. Depending on how high priority is her deck, she'll agree. If it's not that high priority, then I get another little vacation till I secure my next client, or next job. Since nothing is lined up, I have decided to offer these terms without too much care whether she accepts or not. Her incentive will be to get all the pay dates crossed off so she can get back to my current rate, which is more of a wholesale rate than a retail rate. She should not have treated it like retail. Still, I don't think she'll ever get beyond a weekly pay date.
I apologize, as it appears i misread you, but the story didnt make sense at first, you were using lawyerly/broker talk like "my associates, my client" so i assumed it was some kind of computer work. I have lots of buddies who are contractors, they never talk like that so i got the wrong idea, i apologize for my accusation. I think Arnie hit the nail on the head, you probably are under capitalized, and probably low balling estimates, something that is a common mistake among contractors, i have seen people make that mistake, ive worked for people in that field while i was going to school. Even though it shouldnt take people three months to pay you, you should have 3 months of bills covered in that field, so that if no one pays you, you can still float it. Only suggestion i could make is requesting you get some of the costs back on materials upfront as an advance if its really putting you in that much of a jam and the job is that big. Also dont commit 100% to any given job that will take your entire work force for more than a month, commit to 2 or 3 jobs and spread your work amongst them, so atleast some income is coming in, work a few hours a day at 1 job, a few hours a day at the next, etc... etc... Cheapskate homebuilders will smell desperation if they think they are your only gig, and they will clip your wings every chance they get, if they realise you NEED them to stay afloat. As soon as you commit to 1 person and 1 job that will take you months, you are basically fucked if that 1 person screws you in the end. But at the same time, if someone agrees to pay you on "X" date and they dont pay, i would do whatever i could to recoup costs, then leave. People/businesses who are late paying, dont tend to get any better with time, thats my experience anyways. The same thing happens all the time to buddies of mine who are contractors working for overleveraged homebuilders who need to sell the house before they can pay people, they always end up spending months fighting with these people, and you cant squeeze blood from a stone, unfortunately its the nature of the business, everyone thinks they can run a home building company, and very few of them are reputable, or have a legitimate business where they arent just relying on leverage to get a house built they cant possibly afford to pay back if shit goes south. Trades guys make good money, but you got to deal with alot of bull shit. Make sure no matter what you have something in writing, most contractors work on a handshake, then your screwed if you are forced to take more drastic measures to recoup your costs.