If you trade how much profit per year % considered good?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by stupidtrader, Oct 2, 2024.

  1. Good Morning Scataphagos,

    PA Price, that is all we get!!!!

    KISS
     
    #21     Oct 3, 2024
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  2. taowave

    taowave

    Not sure I would go that far..



     
    #22     Oct 3, 2024
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  3. Businessman

    Businessman

    Rentec medallion: 66% on $15Billion and sharpie ratio of over 2.

    I know how to do 66% on 1.5 million, which is 1/10,000ths the amount they have.

    But not with such a high Sharpe ratio.

    That they can do that with 15 billion is mind blowing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2024
    #23     Oct 3, 2024
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  4. 2rosy

    2rosy

    A Sharpe of 2 is high? Just trade more
     
    #24     Oct 3, 2024
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  5. Businessman

    Businessman

    If only I could find more quality uncorrelated signals for my algo. There is a balance between quantity and quality.

    Reducing the quantity of trades by avoiding only slightly profitable signals keeps drawdowns lower and also keeps trading costs down.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2024
    #25     Oct 3, 2024
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  6. Wide Tailz

    Wide Tailz

    I'm pretty stoked if I can just keep from losing altitude, which means beating the main indices and / or inflation. California real estate has been a much better venture than this trading jazz, for me at least!
     
    #26     Oct 4, 2024
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  7. Price TA isn't the only way to "skin the market's cat"... likely not even the best way. However, it's simple to understand and foolproof (maybe should say "almost foolproof"... traders can screw anything up, you know. :)).
     
    #27     Oct 4, 2024
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  8. I don't think its worth it pursuing the road of day trading if what you want is 15% annual return. Too much work for that kind of return. Unless you are running a 10 millions+ size account that's different.
     
    #28     Oct 4, 2024
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  9. MrMuppet

    MrMuppet

    If you live in a 0% tax haven that has below average living expenses, I agree.

    But let's look at it from another perspective:

    Most people who are successful in trading have only a couple of peak years. Quant shop employees have an average shelf life of 3 years for example.

    In these years you will have to push your luck to the maximum in order to create a meaningful stack that you can make a living with.

    If you have 10m, you can have a very comfortable life with leveraged beta or beta in general. You don't have to burn out while trying to find the next piece of alpha, you can DCA S&P ETFs or 60/40 with bonds and stocks, sell vol on bonds etc.

    If you are below 1m, let's say 500k and you make 30% p.a. where does that take you?
    You made 150k before taxes and most likely you will spend all of it to cover living expenses. It's nice BUT:

    - your account does not grow
    - Sooner or later you will take a hit and you have no margin for error
    - you can make just as much with a 9to5 but your skillset is not transferable thus your career path is a dead end

    Look at the carry traders up until 2021. You were able to borrow USD from a shady south american commercial bank collateralized with BTC, leveraged up to 100:1, lock in a carry trade that generated 40% yield and make ~4000% annual return on your equity.

    There was no trading skill involved but you had to be smart, establish the connections and infrastructure. Same with DeFi yield farmers, OTC nano cap scalping, ...
    I know dozends of people who made it big during these times but almost all of them are one hit wonders.

    The guy who consistently found new edge cycle after cycle, year after year, aka the SOES bandit who transitioned into market making STIRS, got into dispersion trading, into arbing secondary listings before getting into crypto is as rare as hens teeth.

    You always have to ask yourself: "Do I have enough to sustain my standart of living with 5-10% yield p.a. once the party is over"
    Because chances are it will be over after 2-3 years.

    Sounds unrealistic?
    Yeah, because the muppets are trying to make it big in the ES, treasuries or any other major market. And you will never ever 100x your account in these. Too efficient, too much competition, barrier of market entry too high.
    But if I gave you 5k and an account with a prediction market right now and you don't have 50k at the end of next year you should seriously re-consider your choices.
     
    #29     Oct 4, 2024
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  10. taowave

    taowave

    Yes,thats a much different story

    If we are talking a one off arb or an edge,which has a shelf life of 2-3 years,I am in agreement..

    I was verrry confused when you set the bar at apx 1 mil and 50% returns with a Sharpe of 2 or higher... Thats the stuff legends are made of :)





     
    #30     Oct 4, 2024
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