If you want to lose fat (for real)

Discussion in 'Trading' started by illiquid, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. (Yes, there is a trading angle to this at the end :))

    I've been the same weight for most of my adult life, around 170 (I'm 5'7"). Although alot of the weight was muscle, I could pinch a good hefty inch or 2 of flab on my belly that I'd had since high school. I'd always fluctuate +/- 5lbs, depending on how hard I tried to exercise and pay attention to what I ate (low-fat, junk etc).

    For the past few years I ramped up my gym visits and ran 20 miles a week religiously, and yet still I couldn't get past this "set point" of 170. Last year, I started a pretty difficult boot camp class, 3 times a week to replace my cardio. I definitely noticed an improvement in overall tone, but still the weight remained.

    2 months ago, I read up on a few articles about how a couple generations of Americans who'd been taught to eat low-fat by the surgeon general just became all the more fatter than their parents. Instead, some are now advocating eating more fat, especially healthy vegetable fats, instead of trying to avoid them all together. I had tried low/no carb diets in the past just to see if they would work (not for me). This time I figured why not try things from a different angle.

    I added 3 sources of non-animal fats into my daily diet: avocados, nuts, and coconut oil. For breakfast each and every day, I'd have a bowl of steel-cut oatmeal mixed with a tbsp of almond butter and a tbsp of coconut oil. Between lunch and dinner I'd make sure to eat a half an avocado, most times on some plain crackers. Whenever I got that urge to snack on something, I'd grab a big spoonful of nut butter instead of a bag of chips. Besides the above additions, I made no other major changes to my diet.

    After the first few weeks, I really began to see a change in my daily eating habits. My overall appetite just suddenly evaporated. I no longer had urges, especially late at night, to raid the fridge, just to have something to munch on while watching the tube. In fact, just the thought of eating a small bag of doritos (once a daily treat for me) seemed just "too much" for my tongue to take. Now, before every meal, I don't even feel hunger in the usual sense. I can still enjoy and savor good food when I have it, but it's almost as if I need to remind myself to eat a meal when the time comes. The bowl of oatmeal every morning, for example, is just a chore to put away, a real grind. But it gets me through the day, and six hours later before lunch I'm in the gym busting my ass in boot camp class. I feel great with plenty of energy -- in fact, alot more than before. I've also been getting by with about an hour less sleep each night than I'm typically used to.

    It's as if I've retrained my body to burn fat again as a source of energy. This is the exact opposite of trying to diet and eat low-fat, which only teaches your body to store fat and preserve it as much as possible. Now, by consciously trying to add more fat to my diet (and yes, I'm also eating bacon, steak etc along with plenty of veggies), my appetite has become completely tamed. You know the feeling of heavy, greasy fullness you have after eating a whole box of chicken mcnuggets or a giant order of steak frites? Well it's kind of like walking around all day with that feeling, only not in a heavy way. You just become way more sensitized to all flavors in general, as if everything you ate came with it's own dollop of butter.

    Right now, I feel I'm in total control about how much fat I want to lose. I still go out to eat and stuff myself once in a while, and yet the pounds are staying off. I've lost 15 lbs in 2 months, almost all of it in fat, as I'm still lifting the same weights at the gym, after being the same weight for nearly 20 years. My fat % has gone from upper 20's to mid-teens. Of course, I am still going to hardcore boot camp classes 4x a week, you can't do this with just diet change alone. But I've only seen big changes once I brought my appetite under control. Give it a shot and see if it works for you.

    What does the above have to do with trading? Well, judging by how obese this country has become, I think the 90+% failure rate applies for both dieters and traders alike. You need dedication to do the hard work that is required (two words: screen time -- and naught else), but you also have to have an innate tendency to be willing to go against the grain, to try things that on the surface seem counterintuitive. Who would have thought that by eating more fat, you'd lose fat? And yet in the end it all makes sense, contrary to what the media and surgeon general would have you believe for the past 3 decades. There are many similar corollaries in trading, concepts that don't make sense up front but after you delve into it from a different angle, you just know it's right.

    The one major difference between the trading world and the nutritional world would be this: what works in trading will always change to keep the slowest 90% in the red -- that's just the nature of the business. But the ability to stay ahead of the game will always require that gut instinct to go against the flow, that will never change.
  2. Oh, and if I go to the doctor next month and find out I have some degenerative blood condition -- can we say fooled by randomness? (jk, never felt better!).
  3. Stok


    Yup, fats are very important...they also help regulate hormones and libido. You should get at least .45g per BW, if not up to .75g per day per BW. I sometime have a spoonful of olive oil or two to get my fats in for the day. There is a lot of good information at bodybuilding.com in the forum areas (losing fat and nutrition). And it all boils down to calories in vs. calories out. Also suggest an app like myfitnesspal and log your foods and exercises per day and you can see what calorie deficit or surplus your really in. I've dropped 20 pounds from learning about nutrition...only exercise is the gym, lifting heavy sets and low reps 3x a week and running a 300-500 calorie deficit per day. Now down to ideal weight (165 at 6'), starting a bulking up plan for the fall :) If you do lift, get about 1g of protein per LBM (lean body mass)...all works like a charm.
  4. Handle123


    At my "worst" weight of 375 a year ago, mostly due to taking steroids for diseases I have, I was watching my cat eat a few pieces of his food then walk off. He has a dispencer in which he could eat 24 hours hours a day, but doesn't. Many cats get heavy through to old age cause they are feed once a day then body goes into starvation mode to retain fat. My cat is sixteen years and in better shape than me, however can't jump like he use to.

    One year ago I decided to change my diet to 1500 calories per day M-F and 2000 calories on weekends. Each time I ate something, I would record it in my notebook and calories, I also decided that I would eat every 3 hours like my cat, and as a result, my craving for food reduced as my stomach got smaller. The first week was tough, but are lots of fresh veggies which has little calories. I also, increased my vitamins and supplements, monthly visits to doctor and blood work.

    I been able to get four other people on this diet and we send our diets for the day to each other, sort of an extra way of support. We are all losing weight. Each Thursday we have a weigh in and also recorded on our reports for the day.

    I walk anywhere from one to seven miles a day, I read somewhere on net that the body gets use to how much you eat and how much exercise you do, so by constantly doing different, keeps fooling my body. I, also, work out at gym twice a week on weights.

    I still have to take steroids which means my body retains fluids, but today I have gone to 299, still have much more to go for my 6'6" frame, but will get to my goal of 204. My goal each week is one pound, almost all weeks I can hit it. I can eat anything I want so long as I can fit calories into my diet, usually weekends I have something special or sweet.

    As far as comparing it to my trading, losing weight is just like trading. I have a plan (diet), know where my protective stops are (calories), backtested it (cat), know my targets (one pound a week), daily goal (204) when I should trade (miles to walk) and disipline to make money (losing weight). Although most might say losing weight easier than to trade well, I think it is very much the same.
    beginner66 likes this.
  5. I enjoyed reading your eating lessons. I learned some new ideas. I hope it works great for you. It did for me until I ran into the wall we all do. It is call age.

    First it was pinched nerves in my back so doc said no lifting weights at the gym anymore. Then it was constant inflamed Achilles and acute Tendonitis so doc added jogging to my list of no-nos. So I was down to walking the dog and doubles tennis 2 times a week.

    During these exercise losses all the weight slowly came back over 3 years. I was back to my average weight with no major changes in diet. I felt heavy.

    That is when I learned more about the old body. You need even less than the body that exercises at the gym. I started eating either a half or one meal a day and 2 small meal replacements. I lost but not like I did when I was younger.

    That was when I learned how much my digestion and metabolism had changed. A friend suggested adding Braggs Raw Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) with the ‘mother’ to cut my weight because of my digestion changes. ACV apparently adds to fat digestion. I don’t know how it works but the weight is now coming off for the last year and half. Here is the web site:


    Then I discovered swimming again to overcome the exercise loss. I now get my jogging equivalent in the water at the local pool. It has added to the weight loss.

    So as you can see weight will always be a battle that we must adjust to. But like you my trading is better if I keep the weight off and get the right amount of exercise.
  6. Hahaa..

    90+% failure rate is in everything now.no matter how hard you try it`s impossible to sustain in the long haul.it is the spirit of the times,since we are living in Kali Yuga age and the humanity is programmed for self-humiliation during this age.everything is fulminant and has a short time span to exist.

    so god speed to all those who are trying:D



    Thanks for starting this thread. For those of us who sit at a screen all day, its good to hear from other traders, with a similar line of work, who have adopted some sort of regime to keep those pounds from adding up over the years.

    However, as I am on my way drifting well north of my ideal weight, I have come to realize that if I keep heading north, with what I'm currently doing, my "ship of shape" will eventually fall off the edge of the world. Therefore, after many other non-viable approaches, I'm considering the vegan approach.

    My question; are there any Vegan Traders out there who would be willing to share their personal traders diet routine/plan with me?

    Please PM me, big thanks.
  8. illiquid you have learned a lot. This is what I have learned...
    to trade well, you need:
    1. a plan or an edge that you know will work
    2. the discipline to follow it
    3. time to let your edge do its thing.

    you need all that to get in shape too. there is huge amount of dogma and things are just accepted at face value in investments/trading and in fitness.
    I tried low carb back in the nineties when no one knew anything about it and was amazed how much fat I lost. Yes, fat is not so bad I learned. It has taken doctors (otherwise smart people) a very long time to realize that they were wrong on this. I'm not even sure they realize now to be honest. In my opinion, the best type of diet for someone working out a lot and wants to build muscle, lose fat who weighs 200 pounds say is:

    100 g fat
    175 g carb
    200 g protein

    that's assuming you are active enough to handle that many calories (2500 ish)

    you need discipline and you need the right plan. people on low fat have the wrong plan. good luck
  9. MKTrader


    Bottom line: like many other things, we've been sold a bill of goods re: fat (including saturated fat) being the "enemy." The real enemies are sugar and processed foods. You can find populations with virtually no obesity or modern Western diseases (especially diabetes) that eat diets ranging from high-carb/near vegan (Indian group in Mexico--I forget their name) to low carb/high protein/ high fat (Maasai in Africa, Mongolians, Eskimos, etc.).

    Pretty much all the studies purporting to make fats the enemy (Ancel Keys, et. al.) were flawed in many ways. On the other hand, a little-known book published in 1972 called "Pure, White and Deadly" about sugar has been prophetic. With the "war against fat" (skim milk, low fat everything) Americans eat less fat than prior decades but obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. continue to rise.

    On fitness: you're better off doing high-intensity (hill sprints, 10-15 minutes of push-ups, plyometrics, burpees, etc.) than cardio. The research proves this as well. I have no idea why so many people still think training for a moronathan is so good for you or a time-efficient way to get in shape.
  10. +1

    and coconut oil is one of the good fats. I once read a few books deciphiring all the fads floating around not eating full fats etc and one of the key points i still remember is that like you have figured; saturated fats are not really bad. Infact coconut oils properties that make it saturated (carbon atoms are very tightly bound which is why it becomes a solid at room temp or slightly cooler) are the ones that protect it and in turn us from becoming degenerate when cooked or something like that.

    Also the real bad culprits are processed foods and processed sugar. Real sugar; like say jaggery or cane sugar is infact benefetial.

    Same goes with yogurt and milk. So called "non fat" milk goes through processes (to remove the fat molecules from within) that makes the end product much worse than the full fat ones. Infact if you take the hormones etc out of the full fat milk products, its probably even more benefecial than "good" non fat milk products - if at all there is such a thing.

    Now this i am not sure but i got rid of microwaves from my life anyways. Cooking using non-conventional heating methods (anything other than convection and conduction) is less proven to be safe if nothing else. For example say using microwave; the real way they works is it makes molecules jump around the orbits releasing heat (more or less similar to the process that is triggered in atomic bombs :)). Now who would argue that there is a chance that in the process molecules might become degenerate.. some book or article also refers to these becoming cancer causing molecules. Given this might be an over statement; nevertheless no reason to take that risk.

    well enough of blabbering for this morning..

    #10     Jul 25, 2011