I'm worried

Discussion in 'Trading' started by trader1974, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. Overnight

    Overnight

    The formula is having a very very large account relative to the potential impact of the black swan on your account. If you don't, then you have to hedge, period. I've lived through 3 "black swans" (if you could call them that) in the last 21 months, unhedged. Was not comfortable at all.

    As for same-o's comment, well, it is all relative. Being in huge profit on an open unhedged trade could keep some folks up at night. Does that mean they should not do it?
     
    #11     Oct 26, 2019
  2. tomorton

    tomorton

    Are you able to open an account with a broker who offers negative balance protection? This is now mandatory for all UK brokers.
     
    #12     Oct 26, 2019
  3. comagnum

    comagnum

    Black Swan?

    Circuit breakers (trading curbs) were put into the market after the 1987 crash.

    The max loss overnight on the stock indexes is -5% at which point trading is halted. The day session levels are -7%/-13%/-20%. Your are exposed to more risk in the regular session.

    I hold winning positions overnight because I am a complete hog - I prefer to nearly double my gains & maximize the crap out of the commission & exchange fees. I would lose sleep by not having any exposure to overnight profits which far outpace the losses.

    upload_2019-10-26_11-57-20.png

    upload_2019-10-26_11-51-4.png
     
    #13     Oct 26, 2019
    bone, bln, trader1974 and 5 others like this.
  4. qlai

    qlai

    Lol, no I don't think these would qualify :)
     
    #14     Oct 26, 2019
  5. Overnight

    Overnight

    In the context of a swing, yes, they were 'black swans", in my mind. What you seem to be speaking of is a flash crash?
     
    #15     Oct 26, 2019
  6. themickey

    themickey

    How come SPY which is a day only ETF, runs higher than red line? What is the day only red line? Is that futures day only?
    Only mention as I can't imagine SPY outperforming SPX.
    upload_2019-10-26_11-57-20.png
     
    #16     Oct 26, 2019
  7. comagnum

    comagnum

    The SPY (green line) is overall, meaning both day and extended session.
    The day line (red) is open -to-close only.
     
    #17     Oct 26, 2019
    ElectricSavant and themickey like this.
  8. imjohn

    imjohn

    Depends on the liquidity of the trading instrument and the leverage used (margin level per contract).

    If I was leveraged to the hilt and trading illiquid instruments overnight (or even in RTH), I would expect an account-ending event to occur at some point in time.

    But I'm trading a liquid instrument while maintaining a conservative level of margin per contract (adequate to handle multiples of the prior black swan moves established in market history).

    Two very different games.
     
    #18     Oct 26, 2019
  9. bln

    bln

    I solve this by swing trading broad indexes like S&P 500 and Nasdaq 100. The more constituents an index got the more cushion. I don't expect a larger gap than 4% to open print, so if the trade is sized correctly the damage is contained within 1-15% depending where one sets his own risk mandate.
     
    #19     Oct 27, 2019
  10. ironchef

    ironchef

    I did the same calculation on SPY from 1993 to 2019. I don't think I get the same dramatic result as what you showed.
     
    #20     Oct 27, 2019