is market random?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by padutrader, Sep 27, 2019.

is market random

  1. yes

    9 vote(s)
    16.1%
  2. no

    17 vote(s)
    30.4%
  3. not all the time

    19 vote(s)
    33.9%
  4. does not matter

    11 vote(s)
    19.6%
  1. tommcginnis

    tommcginnis

    Oh, don't say that to some folk! They'll get *very* excited: :mad::mad::mad:.
    (As I think you've seen recently? Yeah -- them folk.....)

    :D
     
    #111     Oct 9, 2019
  2. ironchef

    ironchef

    Actually yes.

    The thing is if you look at SPY over 25 years, there is a slightly higher % of up vs down, i.e., like Mr. turtle said, there is an up bias. However, if you don't have a method to do further filtering (an edge), the slight up bias won't get us small mom and pop retails rich. Buy & Hold beats mechanically day trade SPY.
     
    #112     Oct 9, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.
  3. Wheezooo

    Wheezooo

    Well, it is a prediction. Just one dimensional. The quality of which is dependent on the products associated volatility. The problem is using the word prediction misrepresents to about 99.9% of people what the market is trying to tell you about how it perceives the future, by ignoring the second dimension of that prediction. Only layering the histogram over the mean tells you that. Two products with the same price, one at 20 vol and the other at 100 are two very different predictions. That histogram also allows one to understand that all other prices surrounding the mean are predictions as well. Delta is a good representation of that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    #113     Oct 9, 2019
    murray t turtle and tommcginnis like this.
  4. themickey

    themickey

    As this thread is about randomness, 'predicting' will produce random results.
    The future is random, the past is fact.
    If you trade not on "What may happen" and more on "What did happen", this will unlock some potential.
    "What did happen" is the collective belief of the crowd and most often this belief continues into the future, (until there is a mood shift, most often gradual rather than sudden.)
     
    #114     Oct 9, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.
  5. ironchef

    ironchef

    I like to catch some fat tails.:D
     
    #115     Oct 10, 2019
  6. Snuskpelle

    Snuskpelle

    On OP: It's a bit of a philosophical debate. On the most fundamental macroscopic level, everything happens for a reason - on the quantum level, that's however not so (in our current understanding), which leads to interesting implications on macroscopic randomness depending on interpretation.

    Assuming determinism: There are comparatively simple computer algorithms that generate number sequences that are pseudo random. The resulting apparent noise has the same properties as truly randomly generated noise (e.g. sampled from the atmosphere or whatever) but if you happen to know the exact algorithm it is 100% predictable. For anyone else it is only possible to characterize the next random value as a particular distribution of possible random values.

    So basically, for practical purposes the markets are random noise despite being generated from non-random phenomena (that is, as long as we interpret what happens in the macroscopic world as deterministic independent of underlying quantum randomness). There are occasional clear signals in that noise caused by macroeconomic factors/events such as Trump's tweets etc, and you can trade those with a great degree of certainty without any sophisticated statistical analysis of noise distributions being necessary.

    Then there's also the fact that if you can make decisions faster than anyone else, the world will be almost frozen in your perspective, and your analysis will be vastly more simple. Hence HFT.

    Disclaimer: I am not a mathematician, just a coding monkey.
     
    #116     Oct 10, 2019
  7. [​IMG]

     
    #117     Oct 10, 2019
    ET180 and tommcginnis like this.
  8. %%
    WHEN starting out, like most traders/investors- my results were FAR WORSE than random:caution::caution:,:caution::caution::caution::caution::caution::caution::caution::D:DAnd even those were the days of high commissions, the point is still the same.In theory no[0] commissions should make it easier to profit???
     
    #118     Oct 11, 2019
  9. ET180

    ET180

    It's not random. If it was, the number of down days would be approximately equal to the number of up days. Also, it clearly drifts higher over time.
     
    #119     Oct 11, 2019
    ironchef and murray t turtle like this.
  10. ironchef

    ironchef

    I think we are in agreement. My struggle is how to profit from this slight up trend doing day trading?
     
    #120     Oct 12, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.