Discussion in 'Psychology' started by mikeriley, Aug 19, 2022.

  1. NoahA


    ET had a shit ton of mentors over the years, and all of them failed traders.

    The only thing I would expect a mentor to do would be to allow me to follow his trades (clearly for strategies that aren't liquidity constrained like trading the ES or NQ as an example)

    Now why do I say this? Its because its far too easy to say buy low and sell high... great... show me where low is and I can buy there too. Maybe you say don't get shaken out by small adverse movement.... great... show me in real time where your exits are. And the classic, your average win should be bigger than your average loss... great... show me how you hold onto a trade that looks like it isn't going your way anymore but you have balls of steel to stick with it and let it hit your profit target even though the past 3 trades were losers and you're therefore itching to take the small profit.

    In practically every field on this planet, education and mentorship starts with first showing what will be learned, and then the teacher breaking it down into smaller parts, practicing those, and then putting it together. But for some reason with trading, following a mentor as a first step for one week and putting real money into your account is considered taboo. The only reason for this is because it would expose the bullshit.

    When you get taught to ride a bike, don't you expect the person teaching you to get on it himself and show you how its done? When you go to medical school to learn open heart surgery, do you not expect to look over the shoulder of the head surgeon and see the procedure hundreds of times from beginning to end? Heaven forbid the lessons consisted of psychology pick-me-ups followed up with catches phrases like "don't let the patient bleed to death" and "don't forget to re-attach the blood vessels".

    So yes, I expect a mentor to first let me follow him day after day, see what it feels like to put money into my account, and slowly introduce ideas of why trades are placed where they are and how he manages those trades.

    Now I'm of course not expecting any mentor to do this, but almost every teaching starts from observation of the teacher performing that task.
    #11     Aug 19, 2022
    SimpleMeLike likes this.
  2. Overnight


    Too bad you could not have exposure to my mentor, who did exactly what you are suggesting. But he retired end of 2017, and died early this year. Bummer.
    #12     Aug 19, 2022
  3. Who died early this year? Is it who I think it is?
    #13     Aug 19, 2022
  4. Overnight


    I don't know, who do YOU think he us? He was not a major player in the education space. Name was Roger Felton.
    #14     Aug 19, 2022
  5. The irony of mentors, coaches, teachers, gurus, random people, advice givers, and so-called academies....most, if not all, can't actually do what they preach about in theory, hindsight.

    And yet, strangely enough, a ton of sheep, cattle and zombies look up to these guys as Gods who have a Divine trading touch, that will grant them market riches. All for a low costs of only $150, $349, $495, $995, $1,495, $1,995, $2,495, $3,498, $5,995, $9,855, $14,995

    The only person getting rich in this picture is the person running the dream, fantasy, con -- definitely none of the students,

    But Hey, don't blame or sue me. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Results not typical.
    Translation: you are getting Royally screwed, and it's all legal and safe for me.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
    #15     Aug 19, 2022
    SimpleMeLike and comagnum like this.
  6. Yes, I remember Roger and I thought that was who you were talking about. I just couldn't remember his last name. Bummer he is no longer with us. I think he was part of Traders International back in the day before he went out on his own?
    #16     Aug 19, 2022
  7. Overnight


    Yes. I encountered him after his times at TI and had gone solo.
    #17     Aug 19, 2022
  8. Overnight


    Here's the heart-wrenching message I got from his wife this year...


    "Hi ----:

    Just wanted to let you know that Roger passed away-April 27. He had a heart attack last November that really sent his Pulmonary Fibrosis into a sharp decline. We moved back to ---- in February to be closer to family. I thought we would have more time for them to spend with him. He was in ICU on life support for 5 days and I had to make the very painful decision to have it removed. I know he is not suffering anymore and is at peace. I hope I find my peace again someday. But for now, my heart is broken.

    Thank you for being such a good friend to him.



    #18     Aug 19, 2022
  9. I'm not trying to be funny, but did that guy get a heart attack due to trading stress?
    Similar to the scene in Trading Places at the pits in the end,

    Looking Good, Billy Ray."
    Feeling Good, Louis."
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
    #19     Aug 19, 2022
  10. Last


    Yeah, I had a mentor for a year, someone I met in real life through chance, who I remain good friends with. We spent a lot of time on the basics, repetitive "homework" type stuff. Then eventually we started posting timestamped screenshots of accounts and charts each day. Then for the last 2 or 3 months, we traded live together every day, so I could watch exactly what he did and try to emulate it within reason.

    Your paragraph about "show me how to hold through pullbacks" etc resonates with me because I watched him do those things and make money 80% of the days. It helped a lot, and I've had periods of time where I am green 8/10 days too. It was also a lot easier to not overtrade or do dumb shit if I knew he was watching me haha.

    I don't like the emotional negativity I had dumped on him earlier on when I would be doing horribly day in and day out. I have a lot of respect for the guy and I just want to come to him with some real success to stand on, something positive, not just worries and complaints. We still hang out occasionally and check in on trading stuff but I felt like I learned good fundamentals from him, and learned the demeanor of a good trader when real money is on the line, and beyond that its up to me. I think a lot of it comes down to self control and being able to make healthy choices for yourself and avoid self-inflicted suffering.

    I want to help someone else someday like that, but now I have a lot more understanding why that endeavor could be exhausting, trying to help someone deal with their own toxicity and "ego".
    #20     Aug 19, 2022
    NoahA likes this.