Discussion in 'Psychology' started by mikeriley, Aug 19, 2022.

  1. Overnight


    No, his health was declining for years while he was mentoring, which is why he retired (and stopped trading). His heart attack came in November last year just from deteriorating health.

    Trust me, if he had not retired and had been trying to trade after Feb 2018, his heart attack would have come sooner. Because his system was a slower-scalping method. The ES was such a slow mover through out my training years, 2014-2017, he called it the "EverSlow", and rarely traded it. He was always saying "trade what moves". ES was always the shittiest slow-mover back then. We'd dive into more exciting bits back then like CL, GC, NQ, 6E, NG, RB, and occasional treasuries like the Zs, Corn, Copper.

    The key was to trade what moved the most, and to plan to trade what the market did MOST of the time after a certain move intraday.
    #21     Aug 19, 2022
  2. Didn't he like trading TF or ER2 also back in the day? That's what I remember. And yeah, ES used to be really slow back then compared to what it is now and had a small range to boot.
    #22     Aug 19, 2022
  3. deaddog


    I maintain that there is a difference between education and mentorship. Education teaches you methodology. Mentorship helps you see where you might be going wrong.
    #23     Aug 19, 2022
    Nobert likes this.
  4. Wow, heart-wrenching is right. What a sad ending (aren't they always sad for people)? for such a good guy. I always liked Roger. Having to pull the plug must of been hard on his wife. :(
    #24     Aug 19, 2022
  5. Overnight


    Yes, CME TF back when it was originally that before it was sent to ICE. I do not recall ER2. Which one was that? Is that a symbol that changed from back then to now, like how CME TF became CME RTY after the shuffling?
    #25     Aug 19, 2022
  6. Yeah, ER2 was back before TF and RTY. Long time ago. Russel 2000.
    #26     Aug 19, 2022
  7. Overnight


    Then I guess the answer is yes. :)
    #27     Aug 19, 2022
  8. Sure is! :)
    #28     Aug 19, 2022
  9. NoahA


    Excellent story, thanks for sharing.

    Here is the thing for me though. If I was a successful trader, highly profitable and decided to help, this is what I would think would go through my head with regards to mentoring. (clearly its difficult with a random person, because why give away the holy grail, but assume its for a family member maybe who you would genuinely want to help)

    Instead of listening to all their troubles and hangups, I would just sit them down and let them watch what I'm doing. If its over the internet, I would just call out trades live via voice and what I'm seeing, all via voice which isn't a distraction like typing might be. Something like "So ES looks like its putting in a double bottom, and NQ is hitting a key level as well, so its a good area to try a long given the multiple market confluence. Got a fill on my entry at 4252. Stop is 5 points lower and initial target is 4260..... (then 2 minutes goes by).... I see 3 tries to push above 4258 and it can't, so lets close this trade for a profit, even if it didn't hit the target. Trade closed at 4257.50 for a gain of 5.5 points. Now we wait for the next trade".

    In this fashion, you aren't taking on their hangups and there really is no teaching involved. You're just calling out trades and discussing what you're seeing. If they want to take the same trade, they may, full well understanding what your risk tolerance is and what your best and worst days look like, so they know the range of possibilities.

    To me it just seems so easy. But every mentor/educator wants to over complicate it I think because they really don't have any confidence in what they are doing. And of course for those who don't call out trades in real time or even show a complete history of trades, its super easy to appear to teach and mentor, but I'm far too smart to fall for that bullshit now.

    So in conclusion, I think mentoring is ridiculously easy, but finding a truly profitable mentor is highly unlikely. Hence why you only every see educators and hindsight chartists who hide behind the idea that teaching a man to fish is better than just giving him a few damn fish. It sounds like a profound statement and there is truth to it, but if you can't even produce a few fish, why the hell will I assume you know how to fish???
    #29     Aug 19, 2022
  10. NoahA


    Yes, I agree with this. But this also means that the educator can be just as broke as the student because although they know methodology, they can't put it all together.
    #30     Aug 19, 2022