MSTR -- To get out or not...

Discussion in 'Crypto Assets' started by The_Krakenite, Feb 26, 2024.

  1. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    yeah. That’s a smart thing to do. He’s doing the arb I told you about.
     
    #61     Mar 4, 2024
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  2. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    here’s the thing about the convertibles. If bitcoin rallies then the convertibles becomes shares and dilute the current shareholders. If bitcoin sells off it becomes debt that the shareholders
    Have to repay. So saylor is selling puts on bitcoin with this transaction while monetizing all the dumb
    Money that’s buying his stock. I think his stock is 2x overvalued right now.
     
    #62     Mar 4, 2024
  3. nitrene

    nitrene

    MSTR has gone up 94% in the last 6 trading days and BTC is up about 33%. The current market cap is $22.6 billion but their 193K BTCs are only worth $13.1 billion. I doubt the BI business of MSTR is worth $9.5 billion. More like $1-2 billion. Maybe speculators believe BTC is going to rise another 30%.

    From 2/1/2021 to 2/9/2021 it went up 100% in 6 trading as well. GBTC was up 41% in that time period. Of course that was right about the time of the GME frenzy.
     
    #63     Mar 4, 2024
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  4. johnarb

    johnarb

    Dumb money (like me long options mstr calls) are playing chess, while TradFi playing checkers, imho

    The mstr bitcoin playbook has already been explained over 2 years ago. click play below





    -----------------------

    Here's a more recent explanation below


     
    #64     Mar 4, 2024
    nitrene likes this.
  5. johnarb

    johnarb

    Debt buyers did not get the news FFR is 5% (probably some pension plans with restrictions to only buy debt instruments but want bitcoin exposure)

    upload_2024-3-7_0-10-25.png
     
    #65     Mar 6, 2024
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  6. llIHeroic

    llIHeroic

    John, they have the news that FFR is 5%. Now I didn't go into the prospectus, but I'm near certain if you priced out the convertible strike, they just purchased extrinsic value that is greater than the 4.375% * their duration, that can be close to arbed off in the open market.

    Dumb money is currently winning on a speculative bet, in MSTR, that the NAV premium will widen, but you eventually need to sell something you bought above true value to someone else at an even higher value to monetize spec bets. Inflows can exceed arbitrage PnL pulling value out of something for a while but we're working with finite quantities here.

    MSTR is actually the most efficient entity that can monetize the spread because they don't get marked down on the risk leg. So a masterclass is in fact occurring, but not many people can see it.

    You have had a long BTC thesis at a spectacular time for it and it's also gotten you to win some peripheral bets (so far) like this MSTR position. I am glad for your success. There's danger in underestimating your counterparties though, at least keep that in mind while you're winning.
     
    #66     Mar 6, 2024
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  7. johnarb

    johnarb

    Thank you very much for your post and well wishes

    I'm not playing dumb, I really am not that smart, but I do have an active imagination and do have to give credit to Bitcoin enemy Taleb for giving me the idea I can use my imagination to see alternate realities outside of survivorship bias

    My nick is because I'm a simp for riskarb, totally fascinated with the ET options discussions many years ago, atticus, Maverick74, I thought when I have more time I'd be able to comprehend the intricacies, but alas, I've given up, maybe on my next life time. I failed calculus in college

    40% above yesterday's close of 1051 so an out of the money call option strike price 1471, the buyers were probably shorting yesterday(?) and may sell some other calls to turn it into a calendar/diagonal spread and capture some of the premium(?)

    All basics options, cannot discuss more complex strategies as I literally am incapable

    But I stand on my statement that the options market makers who sold MSTR call options 7/19 1100 for $6.5 when price of mstr was low 400'sh were playing checkers

    I said on 1/29/2024 the option would go to a price of $1,000, it's currently $430 with 4.5 months to go

    The market makers plugged into their B/S model that an option ~700 points out of the money would have to be a six-sigma event to go in the money within 6 months, it's itm now, sure they thought they could hedge with stock, wotm, plenty of time, except the recent moves exploded the IV premium with these crazy 100-point moves and past 2 days 200+ points even

    When I say they were playing checkers, they were missing another dimension

    while I had confidence it was much higher probability it could happen based on the dimension they were missing which is the Bitcoin component, more specifically, the Bitcoin bull market, halving and spot etf's pushing the price of bitcoin much higher, pushing the mstr share price much higher as well

    But anyway, cannot celebrate what has not happened, I'm a superstitious person and also believe I could jinx it (I just knocked on wood for countermeasures)

    Being superstitious is part of my speculator psychology...

    I also wish the best for you in your trades, Heroic



    upload_2024-3-7_2-13-30.png
     
    #67     Mar 6, 2024
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  8. NoahA

    NoahA

    Killer explanation. Really enjoyed reading it. I would love to see @destriero himself comment on it if he is still around.
     
    #68     Mar 6, 2024
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  9. S2007S

    S2007S

    #69     Mar 13, 2024
  10. S2007S

    S2007S


    Everything in this stock is now tied to bitcoin...the BI business of mstr is NOT worth $9.5 billion....


    And once again I will ask why isn't any other company in the world using this trick to boost their stock price??
     
    #70     Mar 13, 2024