POLL: Evolution vs. Creation by God

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by studentofthemarkets, Oct 24, 2021.

Evolution, Creation, God?

  1. I am an atheist and believe the theory of evolution.

    5 vote(s)
  2. I am agnostic and believe the theory of evolution.

    3 vote(s)
  3. I believe the theory of evolution but the process was guided by aliens or other powers.

    1 vote(s)
  4. I believe God created using macro evolution: bacteria became an elephant.

    1 vote(s)
  5. I believe God specially created according to families/kinds.

    5 vote(s)
  6. Other-I believe something not represented on this poll.

    6 vote(s)
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  1. stu


    Sleeping kittens piss him off too.
    #31     Nov 8, 2021
  2. Apparently Professor James Tour is also an evangelist.

    I agree with everything he said in this video, except when he stated that if you read the New Testament twice then you will come to faith in Christ before you finish the second time through. I don't disagree that this has likely been his experience with those he has challenged to read it through twice. I just think he goes a little too far to say that it will definitely happen. I also believe the Scriptures that say that faith comes through hearing the Word of God, and that the Bible was written so that people will believe and be saved.

    But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31

    Broken For You - Dr. James Tour

    Below is an excerpt from Dr. James Tour's personal statement:


    On a more personal note, I was born and raised a Jew in the New York City area. Yes, a Jew. And I remain a Jew. On November 7, 1977, while a college student, I came to the realization that Jesus Christ is indeed the Jewish Messiah.[3, 21] I asked Jesus Christ to forgive me for my sins and to come into my heart.[22] The result was an immediate and sustaining sense of his presence, peace and joy in a manner that I had never before known.[23] These came, according to the scriptures, by an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.[24] Therefore, in present-day terms, I am called a Messianic Jew.
    My experience was not a conversion to a new religion per se; religious conversion is an event that all gentiles must undergo in order to be saved. Although we must all undergo a conversion of the heart,[25] for a Jew, this is more of a return (making teshuvah) to the faith of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, and others through the promised Messiah.[26] These are the very things that were prophesied in the Old Testament, and it is the same return experience that was undergone by the first century apostles (who were also Jews). They never spoke of a conversion, but they spoke of repentance (teshuvah) from sins coupled with a belief and faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. In fact, Paul argued that this following is not a sect, but the very Way itself, the Way that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.[27, 28] This results in salvation and the entrance of the Spirit according to the words of the Old Testament prophet, Joel.[28] Furthermore, it is a return since it draws the Jew into a deeper and more passionate relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.[23] I also have a heartfelt concern for all my Jewish brethren; hence, I pray for their welfare and the peace of Jerusalem.[29] I am well aware that my views are often upsetting to some Jews; however, I can not deny the truth, as I see it, from my study of the scriptures. Moreover, what I am in the flesh, a Jew, is nothing compared to what I am by the Holy Spirit. For Jesus said that although John the Baptist was the greatest man ever born of woman, “he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.”[30]

    About 30 years ago, through the influence of Dr. T. E. Koshy and Bakht Singh, I embarked upon the daily practice of reading the scriptures, from “Genesis” Chapter 1 through “Revelation” Chapter 22, in that order, by continuing each morning where I stopped reading on the previous day. God illuminates, in a personal way, through the scriptures.[31] My most cherished moments in life are in those daily times alone with my God in scripture reading, contemplation upon the written word and prayer. I also delight in the worship experience of partaking of the Lord’s Supper (some call this communion) in the presence of other followers of Jesus Christ.[32] By this regular act, I reflect on Jesus, remembering him, and his giving of himself for me. It is my deep sorrow that some followers of Jesus do not understand or appreciate the absolute significance and criticality of (1) regular meditation upon the scriptures and (2) the act of worship in the Lord’s Supper. Nor do they sense the need to walk in obedience to these regular practices regardless of the fact that Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.”[13] This might be contributing to the phenomenon that many of the claimed followers of Christ have lost their passion for him and fail to display any substantive character or lifestyle difference from those who declare no allegiance to Jesus Christ.

    How do these personal beliefs affect my teaching and research? The commandments and teachings of the scriptures greatly influence the manner in which I conduct myself in all private and professional settings, from my speech, to my management of funds, to my treatment of colleagues and students. The scriptures promise that meditation upon those ideals and obedience to them will result in great blessing and success even through the most difficult of life’s challenges; challenges which are common to all men such as sickness, pain and ultimately death.[33] With Jesus, whether we live or die, we are victorious.[34] I pray daily for my work and professional activities including research, writing and teaching. Although I have never heard an audible voice from God, I do not preclude that it could and does occur. My experience is that I ask his specific blessing and guidance upon all my work, and I often sense his direction and counsel in these endeavors. But I must admit that clarity in sensing his precise direction for me is a topic of my constant seeking and I am in need of improvement.​

    #32     Nov 11, 2021
    murray t turtle likes this.
  3. thecoder


    A "postnatural" species is controlling the universe, ie. similar to "posthuman", but not necessarily human.
    Our universe is a simulated one, running in a big supercomputer of them.
    And the simulation runs billions of universes in parallel (ie. the whole is a multiverse), each with slightly differing initial parameters (ie. the seed # for rand() :)).
    They are harvesting the technology & science invented/developed in those countless simulated worlds.
    Ie. they use AI for their own development, refinement, advancement, as well using virtual economy for making money [it seems they've found a way how to do it].
    #33     Nov 11, 2021
  4. Overnight


    No, you are just trying to rationalize the fact that since you cannot explain the purpose of your existence, there MUST BE some mathematical formulae, or some esoteric explanation for your existence, because you cannot accept Occam's Razor.

    Dude, you are a fluke. You exist by chance, and your existence has zero meaning. DEAL WITH IT!
    #34     Nov 11, 2021
  5. thecoder


    BS! How do you explain the functions of the particles (atoms etc.), as well the building blocks of biological entities, living creatures (ie. DNA/RNA etc.)? This is so complex that not billions-of-billions-of-billions of monkeys can create by chance. It needs much more brain power than pure random luck & time & evolution.

    And: the purpose of my existence is clear to me: I'm just a virtual human object. Nothing spectacular about it (thanks God I'm not religious :))
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2021
    #35     Nov 11, 2021
    murray t turtle likes this.
  6. Overnight


    I think you are missing a very basic fact of reality...

    The reason everything you see around you is working to forge and maintain our reality, is because everything else that attempted to occur failed to stick to reality.

    This is what happens in an infinite frame. Everything happens. EVERYTHING.

    But the things that happen AND WORK are the bits we observe, because we are a part of the system that worked. You see? All the bits that did not work are no longer here. All we have are the finite results from that infinite frame.

    You need music to contemplate this.

    #36     Nov 11, 2021
  7. thecoder


    Hmm. let me think about it... :)

    Hmm. I doubt. Where are then the aliens? :) Ie. what about the Fermi-Paradox?

    Yeah, it's the effect of evolution. Yes, I believe in evolution, but everything was created, incl. the function of evolution.
    I mean the building blocks (the code of basic ideas) were created/provided, the result is just a self-running automaton, ie. a highly advanced AI system.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2021
    #37     Nov 11, 2021
  8. Nope.

    Even proponents of the Big Bang theory believe there are limits to what is possible due to that explosion at a point in time. I saw a video on it not too long ago. If I come across it again, I'll post it.

    But then, maybe you believe in something other than the Big Bang theory.

    You have to be careful when you say "Everything happens. EVERYTHING." Because that would include, well, everything, including the Bible and God and .... :D
    #38     Nov 12, 2021
  9. %%
    Good+ excellent. WSJ called birds ''winged messengers'' + that's only a very small part of the created animal kingdom...............................................................
    Thanks God I'm not religious+ thanks Lord for healing me, in answer to me asking. I've seen enough patterns in Proverbs, to know no man could have written that alone.
    She is like the merchant [trading] ships. Proverbs 31;14
    #39     Nov 12, 2021
    studentofthemarkets likes this.
  10. Professor James Tour has a lot of you tube videos. Today, I watched the first in a series of short lectures on abiogenesis.

    #40     Nov 13, 2021
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