Quote from stu: Not true. On one side the theist has miracles magic superstition and imaginary beings to answer the question. On the other ,science has facts knowledge information which suggest and predict particular possible answers to the question. Science is fact without conclusion. Religion conclusion without fact. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from cashcow Indeed. Well said. At last, someone with a functioning brain. -1 Are you serious? Ignoring stu's general incapabilities to thnk outside a paper bag (he is on ignore as he constantly proved himself to be incapable of holding the other side of an argument, but I have to see his mindless assertions in other people's quotes) Perhaps you can then explain why science has basically resorted to 11-plus dimensional space and multiverse (multiple to infinite universes), plus dark energy and dark matter to try and explain things, when some to all of these may never be proven, may be later discarded, and the entire thing is pretty much unobservable at this point? Science is a framework of HYPOTHESIS, HELD FACTS and EVIDENCES held in the form of paradigms (one of his many nongrasps of true science) based on current understanding and knowledge, subject to later revisions, deletions, and additions. And such happens almost every minute of every day, somewhere in the world. Science is a phenomenal tool and human achievement, but Stu waves it as a 3-year old brandishes a hand grenade. Religion is faith and belief based on a cultural/historic traditions in many different societies, that holds the people together and is generally how they frame the world and the observable universe. And atheism is a completely unfounded assertion, that can never be proven, and is held by people who usually have little grasp of the underlying sciences they keep pointing to, and anger management problems because they cannot stand that anyone happens to disagree with something that is entirely based on opinion, beliefs and whiny rants.
Science- transparency vigorous debate concensus That last one should be enough to give pause, (truth is what a bunch of dudes agree to, lol), but when the first two are proven to be a complete sham, as in climategate, and is also demonstrably true in the creation/evolution debate, then science is nothing but a disingenuous joke, and a cruel one at that.
Okay, as for 11 dimensions etc. I refer you to the first page of "God and Science thread. Supersymetry and 11+ dimensions are currently conjecture, however if present they would explain many many problems connected to particle physics and quantum mechanics. Fortunately the LHC should within the next 2 years either prove or disprove the existence of these dimensions. Yes, that's right at very high electron volt energies, the LHC will unequivocally prove whether or not these dimensions exist or not. If they do exist then the conjecture will be turned into a scientific theory (fact), otherwise research will continue until something else becomes proven. Again, dark energy and dark matter are still (to different extents, conjecture). It is PROVEN that dark matter exists, although the exact quantity in the universe is not known to a great precision. We learn more about it each day. Dark energy may well not exist at all, recent advances in quantum gravity this year have come up with several explanations which may well prove dark energy does not exist. Interestingly these same theories also indicate that the universe did not 'pop' into existence, and instead oscillates infinitely between a compressed state and an expanded state. As for multiple universes, we are tantalisingly close to showing that they do exist, at least to the point of showing that each identifiable quantum state learns to a bifurcation which could effectively be called a parallel universe. CONJECTURE + EVIDENCE --> THEORUM Unfortunately if only a baby with a hand grenade could inject some sense into the thick skulls of some of the people here. Again, I refer you to the "God and Science" thread. People could frame the world in terms of unicorns, fairies and hobgoblins - this does not make it right. Just because an unfortunate large number of people believe some of this nonsense, it does not make it right. Or do you believe the Earth is a few thousand years old? Or maybe the sun hides in a mud pit every night? Religion is continually forced to make the "God of the gaps" even smaller, whereas science continually expands. Based on the fact that God's power (or potential role in the universe) seems to shrink whereas science gets larger it is a truely logical and rational assumption to bet on the side of science and deny the existence of God. In fact, it is just basic statistical reasoning.
,You mean like thunder and magnetic forces can only be miracles for example? Thunder and magnetic forces come from nothing? LOL!!!
Based on the fact that God's power (or potential role in the universe) seems to shrink ... There's that "seems" word again...
Science- transparency vigorous debate consensus Soon to be followed by new ideas based on refinement of instrumentation which leads to a new consensus by demonstrating the flaw in the old consensus... Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat...
Its all about research money. Most scientists resent how little they make and how political their job is and how much infighting goes on in the scientific community. A common scenario is young bright guy gets his phd only to find out nobody cares what he thinks. By the time he is 50 he is sick of making less then he feels he worth and becomes resentful of how little he makes. By that stage all they want is some cushy research grant so they can milk the system and try and look important. For every scientist you see on the Discovery channel there are thousands that will never be heard from
I don't think it is all about research money. Most real scientists are not in it for the money. Getting grants and funding requires them to whore themselves out, but if they had their way they would just immerse themselves in the work and the problem solving...