The importance of the stop

Discussion in 'Trading' started by trader1974, Oct 4, 2020.

  1. Not a firm believer in a fixed stop. Then goes on to describe his criteria of a fixed stop. Lmfao.

    You would be an idiot to not use a fixed stop (of whatever your choosing) most people cannot or shouldnt trade in a discretionary mode.
     
    #11     Oct 10, 2020
  2. vinchaels

    vinchaels

    Yes, and no... yes it’s fixed in a sense but based on a variable so it’s not the same value for all trades and changes based on price action.

    for example, if there’s alot of price action and the ATR is 6 points then my stop is 9 points but if on the next trade the ATR is only 3 points then my stop is 4.5 points.

    it’s not the same value of every trade....
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
    #12     Oct 11, 2020
    KCalhoun likes this.
  3. vinchaels

    vinchaels

    HaHa! I just reread my reply and my math is wrong... but the point i was leading to is the same. My stops vary based on price action and not on a hard value. My $.02
     
    #13     Oct 11, 2020
  4. KCalhoun

    KCalhoun

    Good topic. I use different stop values based on atr, depth of prior cups, in vs out day etc for stock trades.
     
    #14     Oct 11, 2020
  5. ctheo1

    ctheo1

    It all depends on the performance statistics of your methodology, the size of your account and the % equity you want to risk.

    Knowing nothing about the above, it's impossible for me to discern whether 12 points is too much, too little or just about right.
     
    #15     Oct 13, 2020
  6. themickey

    themickey

    When volatility increases, so your stop widens, is that correct?
    Does that not defeat the purpose?
    Increased volatility should not be a reason to then change your stop imo.

    Now where I do think volatility should impact stop width would be natural/normal volatility.
    Ie, if stock ABC is a large cap with low volatility then you would have a narrow stop.
    For stock XYZ which is a small cap with normal high volatility, then a wider stop.

    But for any stock which then has a change in volatility, change your stop width don't make sense.
    Unless it were a gradual change due to price changing, ie one month it were a $1 stock, following year it was a $100 stock.
     
    #16     Oct 13, 2020
  7. I agree with you buddy! Putting a stop depends upon one’s trading style, market volatility and trading goals.
     
    #17     Mar 1, 2021
  8. Very, very, well said.
     
    #18     Mar 1, 2021
  9. Bad_Badness

    Bad_Badness

    Fixed stops have these issues:

    Don't take into account, market volatility
    Don't take into account, trade entry
    Don't take into account, market action before entry
    Don't take into account, market action after entry

    That being said, having an idea of what a "hard" stop should be, as a percent of daily goal, value at risk etc. is prudent.

    Being able to adjust your stop within a range based on the above makes sense, imo. This assumes you have the technical and emotional controls. If you do not, then set and forget is a good stepping stone before going "intermediate".

    Play the percentages over the long run, say 20 trading days, imo. Also the notion that it is dependent upon how much you make in trades, *can* assume your target is ALSO fixed. I.e. Stops are just a part of your tactics. Integrate them and test them to make sure they are supportive to the overall picture. It is best to look at a set of trades not single trades. Then look at sets of sets of trades.

    Personally, I go for 2x-3x daily profits (in points) as a hard stop, because my overall W/L in days is about 10-15:1, so the math works out. 1/2 daily profit target as a starting point for the order ticket, but I scale in and out. Not Martingale crazy scale, but opportunistic scale.

    Lastly, make sure to try your tactics out in a variety of days. You may need to have two or more sets, or a single starting point and adjust. But this is intermediate tactical stuff.

    Hope that helps.

    PS: For the ES Open 10 points is probably good while it fluctuates but not good for once it decides a direction. So for a 10 point stop, I would be exiting while it fluctuates, not when it decides a direction because it would probably work out to 1:1 over many days.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
    #19     Mar 1, 2021