What would Putin do if...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ghost of Cutten, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. LEAPup

    LEAPup

    Any way we cut it, it's yet another mess our community organizer can't handle, and will most likely screw up to be damned. America is screwed harder than a French whore on a Saturday night.:(
     
    #31     Mar 3, 2014
  2. Firstly, the West is seemingly unable to speak with a single voice on this (they can't even agree whether it's worth expelling Russia out of the G-8). Secondly, it's not entirely clear that Putin is likely to fold in response to an escalation. In this particular case, the stakes for Russia are too great, in a variety of ways. What exactly are the stakes for the US and the West? Thirdly, as demonstrated by the events in Georgia in 2008, the US doesn't ultimately have the appetite to engage in serious conflict with Russia in its backyard, in spite of whatever saber-rattling that might precede it.

    So I disagree with your conclusion...
     
    #32     Mar 3, 2014
  3. I disagree.

    What does Russia have that everyone wants, but can get somewhere else? Energy.

    What does Russia need that it can't get (enough of) within its own borders? Food, foreign currency, metals. Basically, everything else..

    This is mere saber-rattling. The truth is, a lengthy economic blockade (and possible a naval blockade of the Bosphorus and the Baltic) plus seizure of foreign bank accounts and other assets, and Russia goes back to Cold War food lines...

    They're not Germany. They're not (mostly) self-sufficient. They're completely dependent on the West for food and other stuff. They need peace with the West. It's the only way they get food and other essentials from the resource-rich Americas and Southeast Asia.

    We bankrupted them once. We can do that and starve them, too. As history shows, that's far easier, cheaper, and effective than invading them...

    Let their broke, starving citizens do the dirty work for us...
     
    #33     Mar 3, 2014
  4. Wallet

    Wallet

    The warm water port in Crimea is an absolute necessity for Russia's navy, Putin will do what ever he needs to secure it. Taking action now before any Western presence on the ground in reaction to Ukraine's ouster is the easiest course of action.

    Putin pressing for the Ukraine homeland, probably won't happen imo, Russia needs Ukraine and it's economy intact to funnel it's gas, Putin knows this, but he will not under any condition allow his only warm water port to side with NATO.

    I can't imagine that this hasn't been discussed through back doors, to me this is "wagging the dog"...... Russia gets Crimea, Ukraine retains it's freedom and everyone gets to act the bad ass.
     
    #34     Mar 3, 2014
  5. You must live in Colorado, because you are clearly high.

    This kind of Wall Street Journal/Johnny McCain Cold War nostalgia is based on fantasy. Yes, we could mount an economic blockade, provided we had the cooperation of europe and China. How likely is that? They were not eager to boycott Iran to stop it from getting nuclear weapons. Russia is not Iran. They have the capacity to cause trouble for us all over the place.

    A naval blockade? That is an act of war. Just a quick question, who is better prepared for all out naval warfare, us or the russkies in their own backyard. We don't have all that many ships. We can't afford to lose half of them over Crimea.

    I am hardly a pacifist or marxist. But I am semi-rational, which is more than I can say for our leaders. Me, if I had to choose, I would choose to be allies with Russia over Ukraine. How many nukes does Ukraine have?

    The best way to handle this is to ignore it. Not our problem. The last thing Obama needs to do is to make it into a face off between him and Putin. Putin is still angry over the Olympic snub and criticism. He despises Obama and worse, has zero respect for him. No way he backs down in a face off.
     
    #35     Mar 3, 2014
  6. Not high. Not in Colorado.

    I agree, the best policy is to do nothing. Especially if you're a bond or curency trader. The volatility helps.

    Fighting over the Ukraine and the Crimea aren't worth it. Crimea in the 1850's nearly broke the British Empire. No need for us to repeat that disaster.

    OTOH, some will say that Putin is like a 2 year old/teenager - pushing the boundaries to see where the line is and what the punishment will be. If none, he'll keep provoking and taking baby steps toward Europe, Turkey, and the Indian Ocean... If smacked a little, then he'll retreat and lick his wounds. Done 2-3 times, and he may finally give up.

    But my preference is for Europe to solve their own problems, and stop begging us to bail them out, time and again... And then kicking the dog later once their freedom's ensured...
     
    #36     Mar 3, 2014
  7. LEAPup

    LEAPup

    Agreed!!!! NO WAY Putin backs down from our little nazi. Zero chance!!!

    And btw, if I lived in Colorado right now, I'd be so damned stoned, I wouldn't know what's going on around me, no less the World around me. Would be a dumb thing on my part, but I'd just like to escape from this lunacy that's overtaken my country...
     
    #37     Mar 3, 2014
  8. vk60546

    vk60546

    It's not that simple. Crimea wants independence and many people in the Eastern Ukraine fully support the Russian intervention.
     
    #38     Mar 3, 2014
  9. Crimea nearly broke the British Empire? In what alternative history did this happen?
     
    #39     Mar 3, 2014
  10. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    I have to admit being stumped by that one as well. I even went to google, but alas, it's version of the Crimean war was decidedly less dramatic.
     
    #40     Mar 3, 2014