Yawn....... Israel attacked by Hamas

Discussion in 'Politics' started by themickey, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    You are properly retarded.

    "Yes, this piece raises multiple red flags. It’s not just “fishy” — it’s ideologically loaded propaganda, wrapped in a veneer of realism and strategic analysis. Here's a breakdown of why it should be read critically, regardless of one’s stance on Israel/Palestine:

    1. Weaponized Pragmatism
    The piece presents Palestinian tribal leaders siding with Israel not as a moment for mutual recognition or dialogue, but as a tactical submission. It treats this not as a bridge, but as a cudgel to:

    • “Crush the Oslo framework”
    • “Neuter the PA”
    • “Bury the two-state delusion”
    That’s not diplomacy — that’s a call for political erasure.

    2. False Dichotomy
    It paints a stark binary:
    Cooperate with Israel = noble tribal survival
    Support the PA or resist = terrorism and corruption

    This collapses the complex range of Palestinian political experience into two options — submission or thuggery. It ignores:

    • Moderate reformers within Palestinian society
    • Legitimate grievances against both Israel and the PA
    • The role of settlement expansion and military occupation
    ⚠️ 3. Classic "Invincibility" Doctrine
    This line sums it up:

    “We will have peace only when they believe we are invincible. Not just today, but forever.”

    That’s not a peace strategy — it’s a perpetual dominance model, where power replaces trust, compromise, or even mutual interest. It's deeply influenced by thinkers like Mordechai Kedar, who argue for managing Arabs through fragmentation and fear, not integration or partnership.

    4. Historical Trauma as Justification
    The reference to the 1929 Hebron massacre is emotionally loaded — not without basis, but used here to:

    • Justify permanent mistrust of all Arab actors
    • Frame coexistence as inherently unstable
    • Paint Oct. 7, 2023 (presumably a Hamas attack) as a recurrence of ancient betrayal
    This is trauma-based policy-making, which is understandable from a human point of view, but dangerous as a foundation for national strategy.

    5. The "Forever Occupation" Agenda
    The real aim of this piece is not peace, but:

    • Delegitimizing Palestinian national aspirations
    • Cementing Israeli control over the West Bank
    • Ending the international community’s support for Palestinian institutions
    The language about "reshaping Judea and Samaria on Israel’s terms" is code for permanent annexation, not security or coexistence.

    Does It Reflect Reality?
    It's partially rooted in real trends:

    • Some tribal leaders in Hebron and elsewhere have expressed frustration with the PA
    • There is disenchantment with Ramallah
    • The Abraham Accords did show that some Arab governments are willing to deal with Israel pragmatically
    But it’s twisted into a triumphalist narrative, not a sober analysis.

    Final Take
    This is a highly ideological piece promoting the dismantling of the two-state framework, dressed up in the language of realism and deterrence. It assumes the only viable peace is one where Palestinians are too afraid to resist and too fragmented to self-govern.

    If someone you respect is sharing this as strategic insight, it's worth asking:

    "Is this a plan for peace — or just for permanent domination under the name of stability?"

    Would you like a counterpoint response to this that could be posted online, drawing from realism but not slipping into ideology?"
     
    #5621     Jul 7, 2025
  2. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Let's catch up with recent news regarding Hamas in Gaza. Hamas is now admitting they have lost control of 80% of Gaza which is now being ruled by various armed family clans. Some of these clans are openly coordinating with Israel and attacking Hamas; the leading one being the Popular Forces led by Yasser Abu Shabab.

    Hamas security officer says group has lost control over most of Gaza
    https://www.newarab.com/news/palestinian-group-gaza-admits-coordination-israel

    Palestinian armed group in Gaza admits to coordination with Israel

    The leader of Gaza-based Popular Forces has admitted to coordinating with Israeli authorities, amid Israel's ongoing offensive on Gaza.
    https://www.newarab.com/news/palestinian-group-gaza-admits-coordination-israel
     
    #5622     Jul 7, 2025
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  3. https://www.wsj.com/opinion/new-palestinian-offer-peace-israel-hebron-sheikh-emirate-36dd39c3

    A New Palestinian Offer for Peace With Israel
    Hebron’s sheikhs propose to leave the Palestinian Authority and join the Abraham Accords.

    The idea of a two-state solution for Israel and the Palestinians has never seemed more futile than in the months since Oct. 7, 2023. But maybe that opens the door to a new way of achieving peace.

    “We want cooperation with Israel,” says Sheikh Wadee’ al-Jaabari, also known as Abu Sanad, from his ceremonial tent in Hebron, the West Bank’s largest city located south of Jerusalem. “We want coexistence.” The leader of Hebron’s most influential clan has said such things before, as did his father. But this time is different. Sheikh Jaabari and four other leading Hebron sheikhs have signed a letter pledging peace and full recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Their plan is for Hebron to break out of the Palestinian Authority, establish an emirate of its own, and join the Abraham Accords.

    The letter is addressed to Israeli Economy Minister Nir Barkat, a former mayor of Jerusalem, who has brought Mr. Jaabari and other sheikhs to his home and met with them more than a dozen times since February. They ask him to present it to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and await his reply.

    “The Emirate of Hebron shall recognize the State of Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people,” the sheikhs write, “and the State of Israel shall recognize the Emirate of Hebron as the Representative of the Arab residents in the Hebron District.” Accepting Israel as a Jewish state goes further than the Palestinian Authority ever has, and sweeps aside decades of rejectionism.

    The letter seeks a timetable for negotiations to join the Abraham Accords and “a fair and decent arrangement that would replace the Oslo Accords, which only brought damage, death, economic disaster and destruction.” The Oslo Accords, agreed to by Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization in the 1990s, “have brought upon us the corrupt Palestinian Authority, instead of recognizing the traditional, authentic local leadership.” That would be the clans, the great families that still shape Palestinian society.
     
    #5623     Jul 7, 2025
  4. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading


    Of course, Hamas is focused on killing the GHF staff to ensure that food aid is not delivered to Palestinians in Gaza. Unless Hamas can steal all the food aid so they can sell it to the residents in order to pay their militants then the terrorist group wants to shut it down any effort aimed at helping the people in Gaza. Hamas has deliberately targeted aid sites.

    GHF announces Hamas murdered 12 aid staff, tortured others during Gaza relief efforts
    https://www.christianpost.com/news/hamas-murdered-ghf-12-aid-staff-tortured-others.html


    Let's also catch up with how Hamas treats the residents of Gaza. This is your reminder that Hamas has killed more residents of Gaza since 2005 than the IDF. Primarily by torturing them prior to murdering them.

    Hamas caught on camera torturing Gazans, COGAT reveals
    The IDF previously released footage of Hamas torturing Gazans during an execution in Gaza City in June.
    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-859933
     
    #5624     Jul 7, 2025
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  5. themickey

    themickey

    #5625     Jul 7, 2025
  6. Ricter

    Ricter

    #5626     Jul 8, 2025
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  7. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    A new report funded by the British government outlines the atrocities committed by Hamas after interviewing the rape victims & witnesses.

    Hamas gang-rape horror revealed in shocking new report: Terrorists stripped October 7 sex attack victims, tied them to trees and mutilated them during 'systematic' onslaught
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14881371/hamas-gang-rape-victims-october-7-attacks.html

    Victims of the Hamas-led massacre in Israel were said to have been found partially or fully naked with their hands tied, with evidence of gang rapes followed by execution, and genital mutilation, according to a new report.

    The Dinah Project's report, commissioned to 'counter denial, misinformation and global silence', will be published on Tuesday and illustrate how 'Hamas used sexual violence as a tactical weapon of war' during its October 7, 2023 incursion, according to The Times, which reviewed the report.

    The project, part-funded by the British government, brings together all available evidence in finding 'clear patterns emerged' in how sexual violence was perpetrated. The report concludes violence was 'widespread and systematic' during the attacks.

    It is said to include previously untold descriptions of alleged violence at the Nova music festival near the border with Gaza, on the Israeli highway Route 232, at the military base at Nahal Oz, and the Re'im, Nir Oz and Kfar Aza kibbutzim.

    It includes testimonies from 15 hostages who have returned to Israel since the assault, a survivor of alleged attempted rape at the Nova music festival, and interviews with witnesses, first responders and therapists treating traumatised survivors.

    'Dozens' of victims were said to have 'often' been found tied to 'trees or poles'.

    Many returning from captivity in Gaza also described 'forced nudity, physical and verbal harassment, sexual assaults and threats of forced marriage', it says.

    'Many of the witnesses spoke of the victims being shot and them still trying to rape a dead body,' said Sharon Zagagi-Pinhas, a former chief military prosecutor of the Israeli army who has been working with project founder Professor Ruth Halperin-Kaddari.

    The report was motivated by perceived inaction from international groups, pushback on claims members of Hamas would not rape women, and the suggestion the Israeli government had 'weaponised' the issue to justify its retaliatory campaign in Gaza, The Times explains.

    The report is said to call on the UN secretary-general, Antonio Gueterres, to further investigate and include Hamas in a UN blacklist of groups designated for using sexual violence as a weapon of war.

    The issue has been contentious since reports first emerged of harrowing sexual violence. Critics of Israel's government, including self-described feminist groups, have pushed back on media reports describing testimonies of victims as being unfounded and relying on non-credible witnesses.

    Others have asserted that the issue has been 'complicated' by the 'fact that accusations of sexual assault have also been wielded as a tool of war - and as an (often lethal) weapon of racism and colonialism'.

    International groups, including independent observers, have collated evidence they say determines Hamas did commit sexual violence, however.

    The United Nations special representative on sexual violence in conflict, Pramila Patten, issued a report last March summarising a visit to Israel with a team of experts. She concluded that Hamas had employed sexual violence and that this violence continued against hostages held in Gaza.

    The assessment aligns with claims put forward in the Dinah Project report.

    Patten said that the team was unable to establish the prevalence of sexual violence, assessing it may take 'months of years to emerge and may never be fully known'.

    'What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,' she recalled, presenting her findings from her visit to Israel and the occupied West Bank.

    She said that her team had met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from kibbutzim. It conducted interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the October 7 attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers.

    The team also visited four attack sites and reviewed more than 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of the attacks.

    'It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors,' including sexual violence, she said.

    The team also found 'convincing information' that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and judged reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity, as of March 2024.

    While there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in the Nova music festival site, Route 232, and kibbutz Re'im, reported incidents of rape could not be verified in other locations.

    The team determined that at least two allegations of sexual violence in kibbutz Be'eri, widely reported in the media, were unfounded.

    The report criticised how the authorities had gathered evidence, and called for more cooperation with UN organisations in investigations.

    The UN Special Envoy had been presented with a report from the Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel before filing their conclusions, which detailed 'sadistic' crimes alleged to have occurred in several locations during Hamas' assault.

    'Hamas terrorists employed sadistic practices aimed at intensifying the degree of humiliation and terror inherent in sexual violence,' the report assessed. 'Many of the bodies of sexual crime victims were found bound and shackled.'

    'The genitals of both women and men were brutally mutilated, and sometimes weapons were inserted into them. The terrorists did not stop at shooting, they also cut and mutilated sexual organs and other body parts with knives.'

    The testimonies included claims Hamas gunmen repeatedly stabbed an injured woman while they raped her; that victims had nails, grenades and knives inserted into their sexual organs; and how survivors fleeing the festival witnessed 'girls whose pelvises were simply broken from being raped so much'.

    The Israeli military said earlier this year that Hamas had killed 378 people at the Nova festival alone during the attack that sparked the Gaza war. Around 1,200 people were killed in total.

    The conflict has seen widespread tragedy in both Israel and Gaza. The death toll in Gaza passed 57,000 in recent days, according to the Hamas-run Palestinian Health Ministry.

    The UN has accused Israel of 'deliberately and unashamedly imposing inhumane conditions on civilians' in Gaza, assessing that the population of some 2.1 million face the risk of famine.

    Israel has separately overseen a major expansion of settlements in the West Bank, and hundreds of Palestinians in the Israeli-occupied territory have been killed since October 7, according to UN tallies.

    Israeli families are still grieving the loss of loved ones. Scores of people were taken back into Gaza as hostages on October 7 and still it is believed there are 20 living captives still in the Palestinian enclave.

    The war has seen wider conflict between Israel and Hamas-aligned organisations, including Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Houthis in Yemen, resulting in further missile exchanges and bloodshed.

    (Article contains videos and pictures)
     
    #5627     Jul 8, 2025
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    #5628     Jul 8, 2025
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    #5629     Jul 8, 2025
  10. themickey

    themickey

    You are so full of bullshit.
    So I went hunting for news on 'this event'.
    Found nothing but something from "The Noticer" who claim they are innocent independant media.

    Hmmmmmm, wiki says this.....
    Far-right politics in Australia Article Talk
    Far-right politics in Australia describes authoritarian ideologies, including fascism and White supremacy as they manifest in Australia.

    The Noticer news website, which launched in early 2024, promises "unbiased" news;[156] its subtitle reads "We notice what other news sites don't".[157] The term noticer originated in far-right circles in the US, referring to someone who subscribes to "race science" (a belief that biology underlies racial differences, with whites being superior). In 2023 American far-right writer Steve Sailer published an anthology titled Noticing.[158]

    The Noticer promotes neo-Nazi ideologies, and is popular with National Socialist Network followers. It has published several opinion pieces by prominent neo-Nazi Joel Davis, and others such as NSN leader Thomas Sewell and American white supremacist Jared Taylor have also featured on the site. The website's owners and financial backers are not shown. It purports not to be affiliated with any ideology or movement, but often publishes content relating to extreme-right views, hidden among other news items so that readers do not immediately realise its leaning. It publishes many crime stories, particularly about offences allegedly committed by people of colour. In the lead-up to the 2025 Australian election, candidates and elected officials have shared content from the website, including Senator Ralph Babet, Trumpet of Patriots leader Suellen Wrightson, Family First leader Lyle Shelton, and candidates from both Pauline Hanson's One Nation and the Libertarian Party. Google has started removing ads from pages that breach its policy.[156]
     
    #5630     Jul 8, 2025
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