Yawn....... Israel attacked by Hamas

Discussion in 'Politics' started by themickey, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    France's program to admit students from Gaza has come to an end. I guess having these one of these students on social media urging the killing of all the Jews did not go over very well.

    France suspends Gaza evacuation program after it admits student accused of sharing antisemitic posts
    ‘Hamas propagandists have no place in our country,’ said French Interior Minister Bruno Retailleau
    https://forward.com/fast-forward/76...student-accused-of-sharing-antisemitic-posts/

    The student has left France and gone to a more Hamas friendly place.

    Gaza student leaves France after ‘death to Jews’ posts row
    Nour Attaalah moves to Qatar ‘to continue her studies’ after French foreign ministry brands her comments ‘unacceptable’
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/08/04/gazan-student-france-death-jews-posts/
     
  2. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    He’s never managed so much in life, too wedded to his conditioning as a corporate drone. Now we’re treated to his late-stage delusions of sage counsel. And though we could easily bring his world crashing down, we choose instead the sometimes counterintuitive restraint of the morally literate.

    Good on us but things are a lot deeper when he is absent.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 3:26 PM
  3. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

  4. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    She fed 100K Gazan families for free – now terrorists and local merchants want her dead
    'I will continue delivering aid to the people who need it, no matter the threats. That’s my promise,' says Sarah Awaidah
    https://www.foxnews.com/world/she-f...-now-terrorists-local-merchants-want-her-dead

    "There’s a lot of private sector businessmen – some associated with Hamas and other political groups – who try to use aid to make millions," she said. "Because there’s such a shortage of goods, and prices are so high, some steal aid and sell it in the market. Others try to take over the supply routes so they can resell it."

    According to Awaidah, her team’s success threatened those who profit from scarcity. By flooding the market with free goods, they not only fed families but also drove down the inflated prices charged for basics like sugar and flour.

    "If there’s no sugar in Gaza, and we bring it in for free, they can’t keep selling it at outrageous prices," she said. "So we became their problem."
     
  5. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    But what makes for good judgement on situations so far out of the direct experience of ordinary people?

    Good judgment in a situation like Gaza, a conflict saturated with history, propaganda, trauma, and moral hazard, requires more than knowledge or passion. It demands a difficult blend of principles, clarity, and humility. Here are the core elements:

    1. Moral Consistency
    Avoid applying one standard to one side and a different standard to the other. If you condemn bombing civilians in Kyiv, you must do so in Gaza. If hostage-taking offends you, that must hold regardless of the captor. Without consistency, judgment becomes tribal rather than moral.

    2. Historical Awareness, Without Excuses
    Understand the history, colonialism, dispossession, wars, failed peace processes, not to justify violence, but to comprehend why people act as they do. History explains, but it does not absolve. A good judge sees context, not excuses.

    3. Skepticism of Simplistic Narratives
    If one side seems all evil and the other all good, you’re likely being manipulated. Propaganda thrives in war, especially in democracies trying to manage consent. Be wary of emotional bait, decontextualized footage, and selective outrage.

    4. Valuing Civilian Life Universally
    Every civilian death is a tragedy, not a tactic. Civilians are not acceptable collateral damage in pursuit of political or military goals. If your judgment treats some lives as less valuable, it's no longer moral judgment, it's nationalism or tribalism in disguise.

    5. Awareness of Power Dynamics
    Power must answer to higher standards. The more military, economic, or media dominance a side has, the more caution and restraint should be expected. Moral judgment is not blind to power; it is often most needed where power is greatest.

    6. Capacity for Empathy Without Losing Clarity
    Good judgment doesn’t require neutrality, but it does require the capacity to imagine the suffering of the other side. Not to excuse their actions, but to see their humanity. Dehumanization is the grease that keeps the machinery of war running.

    7. Resisting Despair or Nihilism
    It’s easy to say “both sides are awful” and walk away. But good judgment includes the courage to stay engaged, to call out atrocities even if no one listens, and to advocate for justice even when it seems impossible.

    8. Willingness to Be Unpopular
    In war, truth is often treason. Standing against your own "side" when they commit wrongs can get you labeled a traitor. But good judgment may demand exactly that, a refusal to trade your integrity for the comfort of belonging.

    Good judgment doesn’t mean having all the answers. It means asking the right questions, applying the same moral lens to both allies and enemies, and refusing to become the thing you’re condemning.
     
  6. themickey

    themickey

    The ABC is granted access to a Kerem Shalom aid site Israel says it is using to feed Gaza
    By Middle East correspondents Matthew Doran at Kerem Shalom and Allyson Horn
    5 hours ago
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-08-07/abc-enters-kerem-shalom-border-israel/105622066

    [​IMG]
    Despite repeated requests, it was the first time the ABC gained access to Gaza with the IDF since the start of the war.

    This was the first couple of metres inside Gaza — the part of the war-ravaged strip Israel wants the world to see, far away from the utter devastation of what were sprawling towns and cities 22 months ago.

    Among the mounds of dirt and rubbish, with the occasional stray dog roaming around, a few dozen large trucks appeared in the distance.

    Some had bullet holes in the windscreen, evidence of the chaos further inside the strip.

    Many were still fully laden with pallets bearing the flags of donors — Jordan, the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the European Union.

    [​IMG]
    Israel is using the scenes at Kerem Shalom to push its argument it is letting aid into the strip. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    Driving along the dirt road, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Home Command SUVs kicked up dust.

    At first, it was brown and beige. Occasionally, it turned white as the vehicles drove over piles of flour spilt from sacks that had fallen off the trucks.

    The road had clearly been churned up from heavy traffic. But it smoothed out as the convoy, which included social media influencers, approached a large fenced-off clearing.

    That area was the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom crossing.

    Despite repeated requests, it was the first time the ABC had gained access to Gaza with the IDF since the start of the war — opportunities semi-regularly offered to other international media outlets, particularly from the US.

    There is no denying that such "embeds", as they are called, are highly choreographed and controlled.

    But the trip was also an opportunity to gain access to a site Israel is using to prosecute its case it is trying to feed the population of Gaza — an argument the humanitarian community, and world leaders, argue is full of holes.

    [​IMG]
    Some packaging was falling apart and in some corners, there was an odour signifying food had spoiled in the hot sun. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    Israel has not allowed international media to independently enter Gaza since the start of the war, and has repeatedly rejected calls to allow access to the strip, arguing it is too dangerous for journalists to operate.

    The Foreign Press Association (FPA), which represents international media operating in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, is challenging the restrictions in Israel's Supreme Court.

    Inside the aid depot, the booms of shelling could be heard in the distance.

    Over the next fence line were the ruins of what was once the city of Rafah — an area totally controlled by the IDF, which had razed it to the ground, with satellite imagery confirming significant earthworks in the area.

    [​IMG]
    Over the next fence line were the ruins of what was once the city of Rafah. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    The aid depot was quite full. Rows and rows of pallets were lined up with everything from tinned tomatoes and beans, to toilet paper and toothpaste.

    Large bottles of sunflower oil were resting on the ground alongside sacks of flour. Some of the packaging was falling apart, evidence the supplies had been lying there for quite a while.

    In some corners, there was an odour signifying food had spoiled in the hot summer sun.

    Aid depot 'something of an airline check-in desk'
    Israel is using the scenes at Kerem Shalom to push its argument it is letting aid into the strip, but that the United Nations and other humanitarian agencies have not followed through on their part of the deal.

    One IDF staffer said the military viewed the depot as something of an airline check-in desk.

    Pallets of food, like suitcases, were brought in and registered, then it was up to baggage handlers to get them to their destination.

    [​IMG]
    Israel has not allowed international media to independently enter Gaza since the start of the war. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    Israel believes its responsibility for the aid ends the moment it "checks in" the supplies.

    But the humanitarian community has consistently poured criticism on that, saying it is an example of Israel avoiding its obligations, and that it has been too difficult and too dangerous to make those deliveries.

    In the week leading up to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's decision to partially ease aid restrictions and allow for so-called "secure corridors" to be established in Gaza, the World Food Programme (WFP) detailed the delays.

    [​IMG]
    Donors include Jordan, the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the European Union. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    WFP made 138 requests to Israeli authorities to travel to Kerem Shalom and the northern aid depot near the Zikim crossing, but only 76 of those requests were approved.

    When the green light was given, WFP said it took up to 46 hours for some of those convoys to make the journey — a long time, considering Gaza is less than 50 kilometres north to south.

    Current rate of convoy deliveries
    Israel is right to state that more aid is entering the strip daily, since the partial easing of restrictions in late July.

    On Tuesday, 300 trucks entered Gaza and another 300 truckloads were picked up for distribution inside the strip.

    But it is still far fewer trucks making it across the border compared to the figures before October 2023, when the war began.

    [​IMG]
    Bullet holes in the windscreen were evidence of the chaos further inside the strip. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    Humanitarian agencies say the situation is so dire across Gaza, after months of Israel's total humanitarian blockade and its decision to cut the UN out of the distribution model, that the current rate of deliveries is a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed.

    The convoys that are making it through the strip are often swarmed by desperate Palestinians. Local medics said more than 20 were killed in one such incident on Wednesday, while there were another five deaths from starvation.

    Palestinian health authorities said the death toll from hunger was rapidly approaching 200.

    Pro-Israel influencers push message
    The ABC joined the "embed" along with an Israeli media outlet, an Israeli writer and a handful of social media influencers.

    Israel is accusing the international media of swallowing Hamas propaganda and failing to put the message of places like Kerem Shalom out to the world, and is now employing alternative means of spreading that word.

    [​IMG]
    The ABC joined the "embed" along with an Israeli media outlet, an Israeli writer and a handful of social media influencers. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    As images of starving Gazan children started dominating headlines across the world, a flurry of social media posts, telling a very different story, also started appearing online.

    The posts were all filmed inside Gaza — an area that cannot be accessed without the approval of the Israeli military — and showed stockpiles of food and aid waiting to be delivered inside the strip.

    Each of the posts contained a consistent message defending Israel, taking aim at the United Nations and blaming the group for manufacturing a hunger crisis in Gaza.

    [​IMG]
    "I saw it with my own eyes…. In Gaza!" wrote pro-Israel influencer Bellamy Bellucci. (Supplied: Instagram/bellamybellucci)

    "United Nations is supposed to deliver this food to the Palestinians in Gaza. But they're not doing that. What they do is blaming Israel of starving the Gaza population," one post from an influencer said.

    The people posting these updates were not internationally accredited journalists, who, for nearly two years, have been repeatedly denied requests to independently access Gaza to document the war.

    Instead, the rare trip inside the strip included several pro-Israeli influencers, who in turn delivered coverage that aligned with Israeli military messaging.

    "The humanitarian aid is sitting in the sun waiting for the UN and international organisations to come and pick it up," the Israeli military posted in a video shot in the same location.

    [​IMG]
    "Embeds", as they are called, are highly choreographed and controlled. (ABC News: Matthew Doran)

    The influencer posts had no response from the United Nations, which has repeatedly said its attempts to access the aid being held at border crossings have been impeded and sometimes blocked by Israel, and that Israel has failed to provide secure routes for aid distribution.

    Several media outlets, including AP and the Wall Street Journal, also visited the site and reported the UN's position.

    The Israeli military would not provide the ABC with a list of the influencers allowed in and did not respond to questions on whether the influencers were asked to go there by the IDF or the Israeli government.

    But the practice is well-known inside Israel as Hasbara, a term used to describe pro-Israel advocacy.

    Last month, Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported the Israeli foreign minister was funding a tour of Israel for 16 US social media influencers, encouraging them to create content messages that aligned with Israeli government policy.
     
    Tuxan and gwb-trading like this.
  7. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    The Israeli cabinet is voting on a plan today to occupy all of Gaza. This would displace over 1 million Palestinians and lead to further deaths. The plan would take five months and require five divisions of IDF troops with the intent of eliminating Hamas. IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Eyal Zamir is opposed to the plan but will follow the government's directions.

    'Five IDF Divisions, five months': Netanyahu's Gaza occupation plan to defeat Hamas
    The plan will likely be approved on Thursday, cabinet ministers told the 'Post,' adding that "the real question is what version of the plan will ultimately be approved."
    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-863472
     
  8. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    In view that another recent survey showed that 80% of Israeli Jews believe that Hamas must be permanently eliminated as a governing and militant entity in Gaza... the results of this survey are not surprising. The bulk of the Israeli population has hardened their attitudes against the Palestinians since the October 7th attacks.

    Poll: Nearly 80% of Israeli Jews 'not troubled' by Gaza starvation
    79% of Israeli Jews say they are untroubled by Gaza famine, as humanitarian crisis deepens and deaths from malnutrition mount.
    https://www.newarab.com/news/poll-nearly-80-israeli-jews-unmoved-starvation-gaza

    The vast majority of Israeli Jews are not troubled by the forced starvation and suffering among Palestinians in Gaza, according to a new survey.

    The poll, conducted in late July by the Viterbi Family Center for Public Opinion and Policy Research at the Israel Democracy Institute, found that 79 percent of Jewish respondents said they were "not so troubled" or "not troubled at all" by the famine in Gaza, according to Haaretz.

    In contrast, 86 percent of Palestinian citizens of Israel said they were "very troubled" or "somewhat troubled" by the situation in Gaza. Concern was also significantly higher among left-wing Jews, with 70 percent expressing distress over the humanitarian crisis.

    The findings come as Gaza faces what aid agencies describe as a worst-case famine scenario.

    The Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) has warned that half a million people in the territory are in catastrophic food insecurity, with the entire population expected to face acute shortages by September.

    According to the World Health Organisation, at least 74 people have died from malnutrition so far this year, including 63 in July alone. The dead include 24 children under five and 38 adults. Nearly one in five children under five in Gaza City is acutely malnourished.

    Humanitarian organisations, the United Nations, and rights groups have accused Israel of using starvation as a method of warfare, pointing to tight restrictions on humanitarian access, the destruction of food production and storage facilities, and the use of lethal force against civilians attempting to collect aid.

    The UN has said such actions may constitute war crimes. Since late May, more than 850 Palestinians have reportedly been killed while trying to reach food distribution sites.

    The survey also revealed stark divisions over whether Israel is making meaningful efforts to avoid inflicting unnecessary suffering on Palestinians in Gaza. Among Jewish respondents, 78 percent agreed that it is, compared to just 22.5 percent of Palestinian citizens of Israel.

    Two-thirds of Palestinian respondents, and 15 percent of Jewish ones, said Israel could significantly reduce the suffering but chooses not to. A majority of left-leaning Jews—56 percent—shared that view.

    When asked about the credibility of Israeli military reports on civilian casualties in Gaza, 70 percent of Jews said they trusted the reports "to a very large or fairly large extent", while only 29.5 percent of Palestinian citizens of Israel said the same.

    The poll also touched on settler violence in the West Bank. Overall, 44 percent said enforcement agencies are too lenient with Israeli settlers who attack soldiers, police, or Palestinians.

    Community responses varied sharply: 67 percent of ultra-Orthodox respondents said settlers are treated too harshly, compared to just 7.5 percent of secular Jews. Similar patterns emerged in views on how settlers are treated when committing violence against Palestinians.

    The poll was conducted between 27 and 31 July, surveying 601 Hebrew-speaking and 152 Arabic-speaking respondents over the age of 18.
     
  9. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    I'd take issue with a prima facie claim that the October 7 attacks alone explain Israel’s sharp rightward turn. That framing risks flattening a far more deliberate trajectory. What we’re seeing is not merely reaction, it is orchestration... a strategic acceleration by entrenched political actors seizing crisis as pretext to consolidate power.

    This is not unfamiliar. Trump, too, used chaos not as disruption, but as opportunity... harnessing outrage to reinstate himself as indispensable.

    Beneath this political calculus is a deeper psychological dynamic: when a population finds itself, willingly or otherwise, enmeshed in collective complicity for state violence, many do not recoil leftward. They retreat rightward, compelled by a need to preserve moral coherence. Conscience doesn't always awaken under pressure; more often, it rationalizes. It doubles down.

    In that light, October 7 was not just a rupture. It was a lever, pulled at a moment of domestic protest and disarray, to pivot the state decisively toward ethno-nationalism, suppress dissent, and recast repression as national cohesion.

    Project 2025 in the U.S. is not a distant parallel. It's a sibling phenomenon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2025 at 12:58 PM
  10. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading


    Some further news... It does not look like any ceasefire will be put into place. At this point the plan is to have the IDF eradicate Hamas in Gaza... in what is likely to be a bloody campaign taking many more months. The situation is a complete mess.

    Netanyahu vows to take full control of Gaza Strip, ‘liberate’ people from Hamas
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/netanyahu-vows-take-full-control-gaza-strip-liberate-people-from-hamas

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has confirmed his plans for Israel to take full control of the Gaza Strip, marking a major shift in policy nearly two decades after Israel withdrew from the region.

    In an exclusive interview with Fox News’ Bill Hemmer, Netanyahu said the move is aimed at eliminating Hamas and eventually transferring governance to Arab authorities.

    "We want to liberate ourselves and liberate the people of Gaza from the awful terror of Hamas," said Netanyahu.

    "In order to assure our security, remove Hamas there, enable the population to be free of Gaza and to pass it to civilian governance."

    While Netanyahu insisted Israel is not planning to occupy Gaza for the long term, he emphasized the need for a lasting security presence and the dismantling of Hamas.

    "The only way that you're [going to] have a different future is to get rid of this neo-Nazi army. The Hamas are monsters," he said.

    Nearly two years after the October 7th terror attacks, about 50 hostages, both dead and alive, remain trapped in Gaza.

    Netanyahu’s plans come as ceasefire negotiations with Hamas have stalled in recent weeks. U.S. special envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff has previously expressed optimism about talks, but progress has since stalled.

    Israel’s security cabinet is set to meet Thursday to discuss the future of the war and the worsening humanitarian situation in Gaza. The United Nations and other international groups have warned of famine and deteriorating access to necessary supplies in the region.

    Earlier this week, Hemmer visited a food distribution center run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, a U.S. and Israeli-backed aid organization. Despite clear logistical issues, Hemmer reported that thousands of people received food at the site.

    "What you saw today was controlled. Certainly, these are desperate people who are fighting for food, fighting for their lives, and are living in a war zone," said Chapin Fay, a spokesperson for the GHF.

    "This is the most complex humanitarian crisis of our lifetime, and we have to stop pretending that there's only one way to deliver aid to the people in Gaza."

    The United Nations Human Rights Council has called for the GHF’s "immediate dismantling," as some human rights groups have accused the organization of firing on civilians and committing war crimes.

    The GHF denied the allegations.

    Netanyahu defended the aid distribution system in Gaza, arguing that the humanitarian crisis stems from Hamas’ control and its looting of much of the provided aid.

    "They want people to be civilian casualties. They want a starvation policy that they themselves are trying to put into being," he said. "And we're doing everything to reverse that."