@ph1l, without independent verification of the originals, it's not evidence. I am not claiming he was or was not, I'm pointing out that what has been presented is of the same quality of evidence as this Trump's MS-13 picture. Alright, here are a few well-known cases where states claimed to have proof for killing someone, but the evidence was unverifiable, later discredited, or found to be partly fabricated: 1. Iraq’s “terrorist” journalists (2003–2004) During the Iraq War, U.S. forces killed several Reuters and Al Jazeera journalists in airstrikes. The military later alleged they had been working with insurgents, sometimes producing what they called “captured documents.” Investigations by Reuters, the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ), and later Wikileaks found the evidence to be non-verifiable or based on faulty intelligence, and in some cases contradicted by video from the journalists themselves. 2. NATO strike on the Serbian TV building (Belgrade, 1999) NATO killed 16 Radio Television of Serbia (RTS) staff, claiming the station was a “legitimate military target” because it was a propaganda arm of the Milosevic regime. Post-strike “evidence” included internal memos and alleged directives — none were independently authenticated, and later Hague Tribunal testimony revealed the targeting decision was political rather than based on a verified combat role. 3. Israeli claims about Gaza NGO staff (2021–2023) Israel designated several Palestinian NGOs as “terrorist organizations,” releasing dossiers allegedly proving links to the PFLP militant group. The EU, U.S. intelligence review, and multiple human rights groups found the provided evidence was largely circumstantial or unverifiable, leading to some donor governments resuming funding. The dossiers were formatted like intelligence summaries, much like the document you uploaded, but without primary-source material to check. 4. Russian claims in Syria (2016–2018) After airstrikes killed members of the White Helmets, Russian officials claimed they were “terrorist auxiliaries,” producing photographs and documents allegedly captured from militants. Independent analysts later showed many were recycled images from unrelated events or digitally altered, with no way to verify the claimed rosters. 5. U.S. drone strike in Kabul (2021) The Pentagon initially claimed the strike killed an ISIS-K operative and produced “clear evidence” linking him to a planned attack. Investigative reporting by the New York Times revealed the target was an aid worker, and the “evidence” was based on misinterpreted surveillance and unverifiable “pattern of life” assumptions. Pattern: In every case, the “proof” came after the fact, relied on state-controlled intelligence that outsiders couldn’t verify, and was used to justify a killing that had already been carried out or was to be. In several of these examples, independent investigation overturned the official narrative entirely.
There’s a big cultural gap in what counts as a “discussion.” In many American settings, when someone meets stopping power, they just walk away*.. as happened here with ph1l’s interjection. I’ve spent a lot of time in the U.S., and in person that kind of exit is rare, but online it seems common, or this place just attracts those who do it. In our own cultures, getting hung up is often when the real conversation starts. That’s why it’s frustrating, especially when you know Americans who do engage to build knowledge, not just to score debate points. As long as GWB is allowed to keep posting in this thread, he will continue to abuse/derail/desecrate etc. it. His style shows no interest in genuine, good-faith discussion; the deaths of innocents are just something he has grown up seeing as a by-product of his country’s foreign policy, never as truly real people. That mindset is exactly what Team America satirised. He calls you a secret Muslim, he calls us "Hamas lovers" and that's not a personal attack somehow. At least to a galloping horse. * I have read it's a melting-pot thing, where because of the babel of languages/cultures, disengaging avoids potentially dangerous conflict, also why they smile too much.
Terrorists in Gaza posing as aid workers taken out. In this situation the aid organization, World Central Kitchen, has come out stating these armed militants are not part of the organization. Israel Conducts Deadly Strike Against 'Fake' Aid Workers in Gaza https://www.newsweek.com/israel-conducts-deadly-strike-against-fake-aid-workers-gaza-2112417 The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) recently conducted a deadly strike targeting what it said were armed individuals posing as staff for an international organization dedicated to providing food relief. The news came as the IDF has sought to push back against a global outcry over the killing of civilian workers in the Gaza Strip, alleging some of them were affiliated with Hamas and other armed factions. Israel has been condemned for its recent killing of an Al Jazeera journalist, whom the IDF claimed was a member of Hamas, along with his crew. The Israeli military official told reporters Tuesday that the newly revealed incident involved fighters posing as personnel of the Washington, D.C.-based World Central Kitchen (WCK) and occurred over the weekend after Israeli troops identified a gathering of "a few dozen" armed individuals traveling near an IDF post in Gaza. The Israeli forces then observed a parked vehicle bearing World Central Kitchen insignia, prompting Israeli personnel to contact the food security organization to verify that the individuals were not affiliated with the group, which has since confirmed the Israeli account. The Israeli military official described the situation as one of "armed men in southern Gaza, near an IDF post, posing as humanitarian workers, knowing that the IDF will be much more careful when we see them." "We were able to verify in real time with the WCK that this, in fact, is not related to their organization, and is, in fact, a fake vehicle," the Israeli military official said. "And still, we waited for the people to leave the vehicle." "We were waiting for another identification in real time of the same people to see again that they are still the same people, still armed people," the Israeli military official added. "We waited for them to get out of the car, and then we went forward and eliminated those armed men who were near our troops." What We Know The Israeli military official told Newsweek that the IDF was not yet able to determine whether the armed individuals were members of Hamas or any other militant group operating in Gaza. "I'm unable to say they are directly connected to Hamas," the Israeli official said. "We're very careful when we say [there is a] connection, to which organization. We want to be able to verify and have concrete connection when we speak, and be very responsible with the information we put out." The IDF later issued a statement announcing the strike. "In a targeted airstrike last week, five armed terrorists were eliminated while near a vehicle marked with the emblem of the international humanitarian aid organization 'World Central Kitchen' (WCK), despite having no affiliation with the organization, and while posing a threat to our troops," the IDF said. "The terrorists deliberately affixed the emblem and wore yellow vests in an attempt to conceal their activity and avoid being targeted, cynically exploiting the status and trust afforded to aid organizations," the IDF added. What Is World Central Kitchen? World Central Kitchen, founded in 2010 by Spanish American chef and restauranteur José Andrés, operates to provide food relief in areas of crisis around the world, including conflict zones such as Ukraine and Gaza. In a comment shared with Newsweek, a spokesperson for World Central Kitchen confirmed that Israel's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) had contacted the organization prior to the strike and that the armed individuals were determined to not be members of World Central Kitchen. "World Central Kitchen was contacted by COGAT, and confirmed the vehicle and persons of interest were not affiliated with World Central Kitchen," the spokesperson told Newsweek. "We strongly condemn anyone posing as World Central Kitchen or other humanitarians, as this endangers civilians and aid workers," the spokesperson added. "The safety and security of our teams are our top priority." Late last month, The New York Times published an op-ed by Andrés titled "The World Cannot Stand By With Gaza on the Brink of Famine." In it, he disputed Israel's claims of Hamas looting humanitarian aid convoys and criticized what he called a "blockade" imposed by Israel against sufficient levels of food entering Gaza. Days later, World Central Kitchen published an article confirming that it was once again "getting some ingredients and supplies into Gaza we are using to cook for vulnerable families and medical facilities in the community of Deir Al-Balah," near where the deadly incident involving Israeli forces and armed fighters was said to have occurred. Caught in Crossfire News of the incident comes just two days after the IDF announced the killing of a prominent Al Jazeera journalist, Anas Al-Sharif, in strikes targeting Gaza City on Sunday. The IDF claimed that Sharif had covertly operated as part of the "Hamas East Jabaliya Battalion" that was responsible for rocket attacks. The IDF sought to prove Sharif's affiliation by providing documents said to have been obtained in Gaza purportedly showing his rank, salary, military ID and other information. Al Jazeera has rejected this claim and a number of international organizations, including the United Nations and the Committee to Protect Journalists have condemned the strike. Israel has previously acknowledged fault in targeting World Central Kitchen staff in Gaza. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called the killing of seven aid workers by Israeli drone fire in April 2024 "a tragic event in which our forces unintentionally harmed non-combatants in the Gaza Strip." "This happens in war," Netanyahu said at the time. "We are conducting a thorough inquiry and are in contact with the governments. We will do everything to prevent a recurrence." When another Israeli strike killed at least three World Central Kitchen workers in November, the IDF asserted that the target of the operation was a member of Hamas and called on the organization to investigate its employees.
And, he is off. At least it's Newsweek, upping his game for appearances today. Yes, WCK confirmed those people weren’t their staff. No, that does not automatically confirm who they were, whether they were combatants/just a gang, or whether killing them was the only lawful option. The article itself shows this is part of a broader pattern where Israel issues post-strike justifications based on intel outsiders can’t verify. You know, today is the first day in what seems like years when nobody needs anything from me. The boards are clear, and I'm wasting it composing a brilliant takedown of a manipulator, in an manner that a busy admin might read? It's a bit sad that my cage door is open and I can't think what to do perhaps a swim.
As noted earlier, a Hamas delegation arrived in Egypt Monday to re-start ceasefire talks. There does not appear to be much progress. At this time, Israel under Netanyahu and his right-wing government is focused on their plan to take over 100% of Gaza in order to eliminate Hamas -- which will lead to many more casualties among the Palestinians. While Hamas is still making demands that are still totally unacceptable to Israel. This gap to bridge appears to be immense. The best chance of a ceasefire was when President Biden was still in office and an internationally brokered three-stage plan was put in place. This plan started with a ceasefire with later stages leading to reconstruction of Gaza and a two-state peace solution. However the first stage ceasefire under this plan did not last long as Hamas continued firing missiles into Israel and failed to release hostages on the agreed-to dates. Some more information is provided in the article below. We will see what further news on these ceasefire negotiations comes out as the week proceeds. Egypt working with Qatar, US to revive 60-day Gaza truce plan: Foreign Minister Egypt said on Tuesday that it was working with Qatar and the United States to broker a 60-day ceasefire as part of a renewed push to end Israeli war on Gaza. https://trt.global/afrika-english/article/f2513afc73f9
Bravo, a shift in tone to sound like a level headed and reasonable commentator today. Wonder why? It’s worth noting that any summary of the ceasefire talks depends heavily on which parts of the history get included. Yes, there were breakdowns in earlier truces, but there’s documented evidence of violations and continued military actions from both sides... not only Hamas. Similarly, framing Israel’s aim to “take over 100% of Gaza” as if it’s an inevitable strategic step leaves out the fact that it’s a political choice under intense international legal and humanitarian criticism. If we want to understand why “the gap to bridge appears immense,” we need to look at the full set of demands and the context behind them, not just the parts each side emphasizes.
So you are finally attempting to make rational points on topic for the discussion rather than just insulting posters. Alright, I will engage. There have been numerous articles over the past month outlining the most current demands from Hamas and the demands from Israel in the ceasefire negotiations. I posted numerous examples which you can go back and reference. Obviously the demands of Hamas and the demands from Israel in regards to a ceasefire agreement are diametrically opposed. Obviously this is a huge gap to bridge -- and there is unlikely to be much progress in Egypt. Hamas was primarily responsible for the breakdown of the internationally brokered ceasefire agreement put in place under President Biden. Once again this is documented in this thread with previous articles at that time. Yes, I will agree that both Israel and Hamas violated previous ceasefire deals. However this internationally-brokered three-stage ceasefire deal was the most promising of them and Hamas was obviously primarily responsible for its collapse. This was sad for the Palestinians in Gaza and actually bad for Hamas as well since they would have stayed in power in Gaza under this particular deal. Netanyahu and his government is obviously under-pressure from the international community to not move forward with this offense in Gaza with the intent of taking over 100% of the strip. Nations are attempting to push Israel to return to the negotiating table. One of the tactics is to threaten to recognize a Palestinian state in September --- with France, Canada, Australia and other countries backing this initiative (a step I support BTW). The question at this point is how the situation moves forward from here. How does more food get into Gaza? What steps can be taken to convince Israel to stop their new offense in Gaza which is expected to take five months and cause much more misery?
Summary: You post something false. I post something that demonstrates this. You respond with a silly meme. I explain why your post was false. You "apologize" by writing what I posted didn't meet your standards followed by several whataboutisms as proof. So, I stopped because debating you is like playing chess with a pigeon. Coming soon: you engage in name calling and your "tough guy" persona.