You+

Discussion in 'Economics' started by nitro, Dec 2, 2015.

  1. Xela

    Xela


    I wouldn't know what does, either, but that's a rather well-known photo taken in the Morumbi region of São Paulo, in Brazil.
     
    #41     Dec 3, 2015
  2. Gambit

    Gambit

    I guessed it was Brazil. Do you know a lot about the region?
     
    #42     Dec 3, 2015
  3. Stewie

    Stewie

    There isn't anything wrong with wanting this, but is this perhaps out of your control? Don't get me wrong, successful trading will allow you to have most things that you want. But if the rest of the world can't keep up, it would be pretty sad. Given all the mass shootings lately, I wouldn't be surprised if one day its not just innocent people getting killed, but perhaps CEO's and anyone else who seems to be a good target for those who feel they got short changed.

    An economy where the rich have a happy life requires stability, and that stability comes from ability to move up and down the ladder (where there is opportunity to advance). When the middle is eliminated, the stability is gone. Also, I think its the poor working class who in a way contribute quite a bit the rich. Most can barely afford thousand dollar phones, and yet they keep upgrading, putting lots of money into the pockets of Apple employees and shareholders. If the middle class doesn't have enough spare money to consume products, I imagine the top 1% would feel it.

    This is how I always think of it. The rich guy wants to buy a penthouse that overlooks the city.... 360 degree views from the 40th floor! Now sure he needs 10 or 20 million in order to buy it, but does he also not need everyone below him to have money to buy a condo? These projects don't go into construction until a certain number is pre-sold, and even then, some developers run out of money. Now when you add up all those condos on every floor, the penthouse at the top is mighty cheap. The guy with 20 million could never have his 40th floor view if hundreds of other hard working people didn't invest their money and slave away for 25 years hoping to pay it off.

    So do the rich have what they have because they are smart and hard working? Sure. But I think that the hard working middle and lower class has just as much to do with their success and access to the good life.

    All these arguments that were made by the rich to strong arm government into giving them what they wanted because they say they create jobs is a bit of a stretch. Sure the guys at the bottom would suffer, but I'm sure some other smart guy would come in and offer to set up shop for cheaper and people would still have jobs.... eventually. The rich think that society needs them, but I think its more so the other way around. Sadly, the poor people don't know this.
     
    #43     Dec 3, 2015
    cjbuckley4 and Gambit like this.
  4. Man, what happened to wanting to build empires? The drive to design build and create to better mankind while enriching yourself and having fun helping others by buying their products and services??

    Folks with the above passions will and have made the "sharing" class their slaves, and the sharers dont even know it.

    Long live capitalism!

    surf
     
    #44     Dec 3, 2015
  5. Gambit

    Gambit

    The gentleman featured in the article has a 3M/year grossing bitcoin "startup". I'm guessing it is a bitcoin mining operation. Many of these commune dwellers are young founders/developers trying to mitigate their risks, and minimize costs. These people are not idle heroin addicts sharing an abandoned building. Did you read this article?
     
    #45     Dec 3, 2015
    cjbuckley4 likes this.
  6. I have an empire, always have. A roof over my head to keep me dry when it rains, heat when it snows. And food? Most of us are trying to quit eating so much. The empire we build is in our hearts and our minds. New toys are for new kids. And as long as you keep working your butt off I can enjoy my empire.
     
    #46     Dec 3, 2015
  7. cjbuckley4

    cjbuckley4

    You make a good point, and I'm sympathetic to the fact not everyone is gonna go into a lucrative field.

    You're entirely right about the worsening economic situation for college grads. I'm lucky to not have debt. I don't want to live in a country where teachers and social workers are crushed by the amount of debt necessary to pursue their goals.
    I agree. A strong middle class is extremely important to making this country run. The middle class is shrinking too quickly and the distribution of wealth has reached an unacceptable level...this is coming from someone whose parents have been a major beneficiary of this phenomenon. Middle and lower class people should have access to an affordable education. The reason I believe the middle class is so important to the economy is because they're the real drivers of consumption in this country. Look at the consumption function, the rich save their income disproportionally and the poor can't afford to consume as much as they would like to, only those in the middle have optimal consumption relative to their incomes.

    As a New Yorker, I'm fairly regularly exposed to and disappointed by the poor (at least more than I was in my extremely sheltered childhood). These guys are freaking balling. New shoes, fashion statements...they make my cowboy boots and college athletics handout shirts look like I'm the poor one. Speaking of expensive phones: I just recently returned to my girlfriend in a store to see a 20 something year old thugged out dude (is me saying that inherently racist...I'm told it is but I'm not sure I'm onboard yet) using the phrase "check it out girl, iPhone 6" as a pickup line. I'm not sure where that guy found the cash for his phone and shoes. Let's just be honest, if you use an iPhone as a pickup line, you really have no business harassing women Christmas shopping in Saks. I'm not sure I agree with the narrative that this kid lacked opportunity. It's not like he was born in Afghanistan. He had the same public school system I did. He made a choice to be a financially illiterate and uneducated joke. It has everything to do with his choices. I'm all for equal opportunity, but there are just too many people in this country that want to cast blame on the upper class instead of making the right choices to improve their situations. I'm 100% for equal opportunity and affordable education though.
     
    #47     Dec 3, 2015
    Stewie and Gambit like this.
  8. Check it out girl, iphone 6!

    girl: do you own any stocks or bonds or real estate, or is that phone and those shoes all you have? I remember when my grandmother got her first telephone. She was certainly proud of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2015
    #48     Dec 3, 2015
    Gambit and cjbuckley4 like this.
  9. Gambit

    Gambit

    This. A thousand times this. We'll always have screw-ups and layabouts but the alternative is appalling...an aristocracy with little or no economic mobility. I do not want to live in Brazil.
    I'm just rambling but there has to be some sensible middle ground between the philosophies of comrade Bernie Sanders and robber baron Trump.
     
    #49     Dec 3, 2015
    FCXoptions and cjbuckley4 like this.
  10. Gambit

    Gambit

    I read somewhere that politics is downstream of culture. We need a return to old fashioned values that emphasize thrift, innovation, grit and charity. We need tolerance but we cannot satisfy the needs of niche special interest groups over the majority. The mormons seems to epitomize these classic values and look how they're prospering. If they were just a little less racist and homophobic they would capture a lot of hearts and minds.
     
    #50     Dec 3, 2015
    Stewie likes this.